Sunday, 27 January 2013

Suhr Riot - Fixed

I've put a couple of Suhr Riot layouts on here, one from Madbean's take on it, and one with jymaze's popular modifications, but it was always felt that something wasn't quite right.  Fortunately MarkGor on Freestompboxes traced his pedal and also removed some of the components so they could be measured to check the values, and the following layout is based on his schematic.  So thanks Mark!

A quick reminder:






120 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. On the dpdt, where is the common out wire?

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  2. Hey Mark,

    Might I ask why use used 4148's in place of the BZV49-C51 (51Y) Diodes in D5 and D6.

    Is it just for convenience over the IC Zeners? Did they have similar voltage?

    I was trying to look at the spec sheets to see if they had similar specs when I realized I don't know what value to even look for.

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    Replies
    1. It's a leftover from the previous versions I did, I didn't even notice they were zeners in the fixed scheme. So yes use the zeners if you want to make it as per the original.

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  3. As soon as i get some DPDT ON_ON_ON, i'll build this one. Any source fot these switches with reasonable prices? Don't wirh to spend 4 euros / unit :P

    BR

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  4. yay, thanks for this, been waiting for another crack at this, was never really happy with my uproar pedal

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  5. Haha.. I thought about it, Tim. But my hearts not in it anymore. I may have a bash at it if/when I have nothing else to do ;o)

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    1. Heh...I figured you'd had enough of it. I just sold my Riot recently and already miss it. Going to have to give this one a go after I finish a couple other builds. I wonder what life is like outside of pedal building.....don't really want to know :)

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    2. It sound a really nice, organic pedal. I might make this one as a bit by bit one in the background. Life? what the hell is that? .. I've just got a Les Paul too so there is no way I'm seeing daylight for a long while ;o)

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  6. I've seen that Chinese New Year celebrations start right now, I'll forget about the Riot until March....

    BR

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  7. Hi could someone pls explain hot to wire an LED, possibly with a diagram? thanks.

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    Replies
    1. http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/offboard-wiring.html

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  8. Doh! I recently built my second Riot. Will have to built it one more time it seems... Thanks for the layout! :)

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  9. Hi Mark, is this a fix on the madbean or the Jymaze version? Are the switching options of the former possible on this?

    Thanks, YA(Mark)

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    Replies
    1. It isn't a fix for either, it's a fix for the original Riot schematic. Madbean did his Uproar and jymaze did his mods to try to improve it, but this new schematic is based on a reversed pedal where the components were removed and measured. So I left those versions up because some people like them, but this is for the people who want to build a stock Riot.

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    2. Gotcha! I'll give this a whirl. Actually, sometimes it can be too distracting when you have too many switches on a box. Cheers mate! Thanks for the quick reply. (as usual)!

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  10. Hey Mark, how come you went with a 10kB for the tone pot when the schematic says 10kC?

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    Replies
    1. I haven't got any 10K anti log pots :o)

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    2. Actually I just didn't notice and left the pot values as per the original layouts I did :o)

      I'll update it, thanks for the heads up

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    3. No problem. Hey, only 2 more schematics to go, hope youguys reach 100

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    4. Does it matter if i use 3mm/5mm LEDS or diffused/waterclears?

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    5. Just checked the original schematic and answered my question, 3mm LEDs. Still is there much difference between diffused and waterclears?

      Is the zener supposed to be 5.1v? On the schematic it says 1n4148, are they interchangable with zeners, like the 1n914s?

      Cheers.

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    6. On the fixed schematic they're marked 51Y which are 51V zeners

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    7. The zener diodes are just used like a normal diode, so it's Vf will be around 0.7V, very similar to a 1n914

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    8. anything showing that they have similar voltages? or is that a guess?

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    9. Doh! Just realised i was looking at the idiot v1.1 schematic instead of the original one...

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    10. @Nicholas Schaffrin. No it's not just a guess, look at the data sheet for them, they all have similar forward voltage drops, it's the reverse breakdown voltage that determines a zener diode value. But in this situation the high reverse breakdown voltage will never be reached, so they are just being used like a normal clipping diode.

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    11. I wasn't saying you were wrong. I just wanted to make sure before I built it and ordered parts. Datasheets to me may as well be in mandarin.;-)

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  11. Verified, albeit, I've subbed a few parts until stocks are replenished:
    1n4148s instead of 1n34a; JRC4558 instead of 4580 and green LED instead of blue. Very nice, thanks


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    1. Excellent, nice one Mark

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    2. ......oh, and BTW, I wasn't sure if 51v Zener was a typo but I may have wrongly assumed it was and put 5v1 instead. Please forgive my ignorance if I'm wrong! The schematic says 51y or something weird like that. Whatever that means!

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    3. Yes the original did have a 51V zener in it, but the way that it's used won't make a difference, they all have a similar voltage drop, you could even just use a 1N4148 if you wanted.

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  12. About the LED diodes.....will 5mm LED's work?...and...is the 'highlighted' side of the LED's plus or minus??

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    1. 5mm are fine although 3mm will be easier to mount next to each other on the board. The highlighted side is the cathode.

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    2. Thanks. Sooo many builds. So little time!!

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  13. Man, this pedal sounds absolutely fantastic. This is my 2nd pedal build ever (have built an amp before) and it worked on the first try. I'm absolutely amazed at how close this sounds to the original.

    IvIark, thank you so much for this site and all contributors...I have a feeling my free time has just went down the drain.

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    Replies
    1. Very brave second pedal, and great that it worked first time, well done. It's that feeling of satisfaction that makes you want to do more and more, and you can never get close to that sense of satisfaction from a pedal you bought.

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    2. This is so true!
      I have a problem with OCD (not really, but sometimes it feels like it) so I always pay very very close attention to what I'm doing, to avoid having to troubleshoot...Helps for things like this!
      Really, you did all the leg work though! So thank you very much! Looking forward to trying more!

      Since we're here...I used a DPDT On/Off/On switch, I actually kind of figured it would do the same thing since it had 3 positions...but I'm wondering now if I should actually get an On/On/On?

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    3. If you're using an on/off/on then in the middle position, the 1N34As aren't in circuit so you're playing it without any diode clipping. You need DPDT on/on/on with the 2 to 4 link for a diode set to be made in every postion.

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    4. Is it possible to modify the circuit so I could use dpdt on/off/on toggle switch? I can't seem to find any on/on/on dpdt switches and the ones I found online are very expensive about 20 euros.

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    5. The problem is, with an on/off/on you could only have 2 clipping options instead of 3. You can get on/on/on very cheaply off eBay:

      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180738971928

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    6. Thanks Mark for a quick reply, lightning fast as always :)

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    7. You are a badass, Bryan--the Riot is an impressive second build!

      I have 20 pedals under my belt, and I regularly fuck up/give up on builds less complicated than this one ;-)

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  14. Hi mark i have a copule of questions on this one. ive finished this one but i sounds a bit strange to me and maby you or someone else have an idea whats wrong with it.
    1 it sounds like its working on half power sorta almost like an transistor that is getting the wrong voltage and gets blaffy or gated cold sounding.
    2 and the gain dosent increases when turning the pot until you get around 3 or 4 a clock.
    3 and this pedal is supposed to have alot of gain but mine dosent.
    ok thanks

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    Replies
    1. Im having the same issue. It worked fine for awhile then started sounding farty

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  15. Has anyone noticed that this fixed version of the Riot, when switched to the 2 red LED position, is almost exactly the same schematic as the MI Audio Crunch Box without the presence mod? Could any of you who have built this fixed circuit with the 3 position DPDT switch, and have also at sometime used a Crunchbox, comment on whether or not the Riot sound is different enough from the Crunchbox to warrant the effort of building it? Thanks.

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  16. Is it possible to put in other IC's? Since the JRC4580 are rare around here..

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    Replies
    1. Yes, any dual opamp will work fine, JRC4558, TL072, NE5532 etc etc

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    2. Does the sound change? If so which of the two is closest to the original Riot?

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  17. I finished this one today, it sounds good everything works but on high gain settings i find the palm mutes to be a bit loose where i'd like them to be tight and cutting.
    Is this normal to this pedal ? (played it with an explorer with SD SH-6)

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  18. I'm going to attack this one again. It still sticks in my throat and I wont rest until I have it... one question though,

    How important are the 51v Zeners? I've ordered some as I only have 9v.

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    Replies
    1. Hey Vince

      I wonder if the 51v will make a difference as well. I know in the original one that I built from Sabro's layout, those were simply 1N914 ( 1N4148 ). It worked fine so I know they will function in there. I can't imagine that they would affect the sound very much, but who knows? I gotta build this too as I sold my original and miss it now.

      Glad to see you're having another go at it.

      TM

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  19. Is BZV49-C51 the correct Zener diode part number???? If not, does anyone know the correct diode to use in D5 and D6? I'm new to building and in zener diode hell right now. lol

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    1. I got mine here : http://such002.reichelt.de/?SID=11UVQJHH8AAAIAAEOSCn87032e32720289156fcd0eb49cde896f7;ACTION=446

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    2. Thanks for the info but unfortunately the link did not work for me. Thanks to this blog, I have a much better understanding of the effects. I have since finished the effect and gave it to a friend who has a Riot permanently on his board and he likes this version better. Thank you also Mark.

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  20. Hi!
    Amazing blog! Well done.

    I want to try this one. This will be my first one! So... I need to know how much voltage must be the capacitors. Any advice?
    Thanks!!

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    Replies
    1. Have a read of this. If will answer that and maybe other queries you have

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    2. Thanks IvIark!
      It was very helpful!

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    3. Hi! Another doubt. The leds are hidden inside the box. Isn't it? Are they only to fulfill its electrical function?

      Why are they red and blue? Why not all red?

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    4. diode color leds have different forward voltages, hence different clipping levels.

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  21. I built one using this layout last night. I even had the 8K25 reisitor but made the 11K3 one using a 10K inseries with a 1.3K one. I also used the 51V zeners, 1N34A's (NOS telefunken ones!) and the correct color leds. IMO, like some have said about the the madbean version, correct schematic or not, IMO, this pedal was just way too dark when compared to the orginal. even with zero gain dialed in, it cuts a lot of the highs. as you turn up the gain it gets a bit brighter) but I still didn't think that it sounded like any of the orginal clips that I've heard, so i ended up modding a few cap values in mine and I really like it now.

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    Replies
    1. Hi John,

      I too built this exactly to spec and agree with your assessment of the final product. I was planning to try to make some changes to brighten things up, but as you have already solved the problem, I was wondering if you would mind sharing the mods you made? Thanks!

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  22. DONE!

    http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com/Effects/Fuzz-ODs/Riot/Riot-01.jpg

    http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com/Effects/Fuzz-ODs/Riot/Riot-02.jpg

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    Replies
    1. Very nice John, thanks for the pics

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  23. John where can I pick up some LED lens like that?

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    Replies
    1. They look like Fresnel lens to me...

      http://www.banzaimusic.com/Lens/

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  24. Hi my friends, my UPROAR have a problem, the blue led don't lighting

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  25. hello,
    Im trying to make this pedal but i dont know how the wiring diagram is. Can you help me?

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  26. Hi, thanks for the layout. I have just completed the build. I used 1509B with battery option and 2 DPDT switch. I added the presence/facemelt mod. Overall, the sound is great, except for the facemelter which is too much. I just want a little more gain on this, I maxed the gain and is still wanting a little more.

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  27. hello, will there be any difference in sound as I use a 47v 0,5w zener diode in place of 51V?
    thanks

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  28. Another problem, in my country I can not find the switch on-on-on, I wonder if I can use the rotary switch (3 positions and 4 circuits), like this: http://www.julik.pl/userdata/gfx/6845a10e1ecd144c4369a50e3369ec7d.jpg

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  29. Is it the new Suhr Riot Reloaded? :)

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  30. Finished it and I love it!
    Instantly this is my favorite distortion box.
    I only have JRC4558s.
    Will using 4580 change the sound drastically?

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  31. sorry
    but what does it mean Tone 3 to Sw5? is Sw1-5?

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    Replies
    1. In means connect lug 3 of the tone pot to lug 5 of the switch.

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  32. Very nice layout, thank you Mark.
    I've just finished it and I like it :)

    Cheers,
    Felix

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  33. How does this differ from the Reloaded one? Any mods than can be done from the riot clone? or a new scheme?
    Thanks

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  34. This is the first pedal I tried building using madbean's layout (a couple of years ago) and failed misserably. Is it viable to use these component values on a madbean board?

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    Replies
    1. There were errors in the original schematic that Brian used, and that I used in the first version on here. This version corrected those errors. So although it's possible that you could adapt some of the connections on the old board to match this schematic, it would be a pain to do so

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  35. I have oscillation issues when I tweak tone and dist pots. I tried to increase those pico caps a little but no luck. Any guess?

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    Replies
    1. Actually it was one of the two 100pf caps that I was not suspecting. I replaced it and its fine now...I wonder why it went bad though

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  36. Am I correct in assuming that the diode clippings goes like this.....
    Position 1 red LEDS
    Position 2 GE diodes
    position 3 Zener and blue LED

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  37. Hey guys! A quick question about clipping options: in my build, in position 1 I have 2 red leds lighting up, which is the way it shold be. However, in positions 2 and 3 the blue led lights up. Shouldn't it light up only in position 3? Thanks in advance.

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    Replies
    1. Sorry I'm late to the party. I had the same issue, but I discovered that there are two types of On-on-on switching patterns and I bet you have the same type of switch as myself. Basically you have to take the switch diagram at the bottom of the layout and mirror it 180 degrees horizontal.
      Link 2-5, the link to switch 3 goes to switch 6, the link to 6 goes to switch 3, etc. Hope that helps!

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  38. Could you post a link to the thread where this was freshly traced? I could not find it searching for "Suhr Riot" or user "MarkGor" on FSB.
    Thanks for another great layout.

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  39. sorry! I found it. I was searching w/o logging in!
    Thanks again

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  40. I have the same questione of Bart about clipping diodes:
    in position 1 I have 2 red leds lighting up, which is the way it shold be. However, in positions 2 and 3 the blue led lights up. Shouldn't it light up only in position 3?

    Reply

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  41. Can I use 1N4148 or 1N914 for D5/D6? Many thanks.

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  42. I just built this with all the parts on the diagram and man it sounds awesome! Sounds just like my original riot i used to have.

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  43. does anyone know what font is on the label?

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  44. I built this with the fixed layout and at first got no sound. I wondered if it was the cheap JRC4580 chips I got on eBay, so I swapped them for some TL072s and it worked (and sounded great!) But here's the puzzler; I tried both the cheapo JRC4580s one at a time in a TS7 Tube Screamer I keep handy and they both worked. Why would they work on their own but not together in the Riot?

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  45. Hey IvIark, wondering if you could have a look at my post on your forum -- I'm having a bit of trouble! http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/Help-with-the-Suhr-Riot-quot-Fixed-quot-Schematic-td22892.html

    Thanks

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  46. Guys can somebody please assist me...
    I had this working like a charm, until today, when i opened it to change the input jack, and stupidly though, it fell to the ground.... i thought it was nothing but now it doesn't work well, and the ICs are getting hot.... It sounds quieter and thinner like half of he sound has been shorted. Can somebody give me a suggestion on what could have been damaged by dropping it? It wasn't dropped from the 3rd floor i mean... just while i was standing....

    Assistance much appreciated :)

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  47. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  48. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  49. Hi guys, 1u is tantalum? or 1uf monolithic? which is the positive side on the board? can I use zener diode 1N4746 18V?

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  50. Hi Fred

    The 1uf can be any non polarised cap. I'm not sure which side is which regarding polarity but you should be able to probe it when powered up to find out. And yes those diodes are fine.

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  51. Hello, I have question about blue led, marked side is the cathode or anode?

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    Replies
    1. cathode. but if you look at the LED's you'll notice they run anti-parallel, so as long as you keep them that way it doesn't matter which the cathode going to the switch as long as the other has the anode on the same row.

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    2. Thank you for the explanation, I did not think over the red because there is no meaning, but with the blue I was wondering and installed a wrong, even though it sounds great :) especially at low gain.

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  52. Here's mine, VERY nice pedal! One of my favs so far :)
    The person I built it for is very pleased :D
    Thank you guys!

    http://hgecontraptions.blogspot.ro/2016/02/suhr-riot-distortion-clone.html

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    Replies
    1. your wirings and solderings are so NEAT!
      very good.... mine is a lot more messy....

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    2. Btw, I just built another one, here it is:

      http://hgecontraptions.blogspot.ro/2016/05/my-second-suhr-riot-clone-ready.html

      Here are some samples:

      single coil: https://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=262915

      humbucker(2 samples):

      https://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=262914

      https://forums.rgc.ro/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=262913

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  53. Just built one, playing chords seems ok but when I play individual notes, it sounds a bit loose, dull and also a lot of high end is cut off....
    did I do something wrong here?

    also, when I turn up the gain, it's getting really loud...

    any advise will be very much appreciated.

    do I have

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  54. Mine was also very dark. With 22nF on the tone control and a 2nd 22nF to ground right after I felt that was a bit much. So I changed the 22nF on the right edge to a 4.7nF. Much better response. Recommended - but I wouldn't go any smaller. Try not quite that small first.

    Thanks for the layout!
    Michael

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  55. Have some trouble building this pedal, can someone help me pls?

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