Wednesday, 9 January 2013

Rebote Delay

I will add the updated version as well at some point, but I wanted to include the original version first because I haven't seen a layout for it yet, and it's a nice option for someone who wants a simple two knob delay pedal which will easily fit in a 1590B.

Short description from the Tonepad project:

Build the Princeton tech digital delay, from the application sheet adapted for stompbox use which
includes a 5v positive voltage regulator and a FET input booster.


Video of the V2 build (I think) which has an opamp input and output buffer instead of the JFET input of this version but should still give you a good idea of what to expect





Two different builds by Geiri. Looking really good, as always:





66 comments:

  1. great layout, think i have a none working one of this in the "fix later" box. built it from sabros layout but that one was huge if im not mistaken.
    i really wanna see the V2 layout of this for a weekend project :) thanks a ton as always!

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  2. easy, small circuit. too bad i cannot find a pt2399 or NTE equivalent!! :O

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    1. From your stash or from shops?
      http://www.taydaelectronics.com/pt2399-2399-echo-audio-processor-guitar-ic.html
      +m

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  3. has anyone tried this? i thought that a vero could be made but then i scrolled down and realized that a vero design was included to.
    is this a rip of another pt2399 delay maybe or is it a original design?
    http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/smalltime.pdf

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    1. I'd be surprised if it was a rip with it being Merlin. The Echo Base also allows delay with tails but I don't know how close they both are. All the PT2399 delays are based around the manufacturers notes, some more closely than others. The Rebote Delay above is almost exactly the sample circuit from the datasheet with a few additions.

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  4. Verified! It's pretty nice too, not necessarily the style of delay I was after but I couldn't resist ticking another off the unverified list ;o) It gives a nice clean slap-back style delay up to a moderate delay time for some U2/Edge style strumming. I was after something that can do the intense overly fed back style of delay but I guess I'll have to try a few more layouts, ah well :D

    Oh and this sounds excellent through the Nurse Quacky!

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    1. Dude. You're so on fire :) I'll tag tag it right away.

      Thanks!
      +m

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    2. Thanks man. I've got my eye on trying a tremolo next, have you or Mark got anything in your magic bags of layouts? Then I think it's time to box a few of these bad boys.

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    3. Sorry. I don't have any tremolos on que. I found one quite interesting schematic, but i can't read it.. :(

      Mark?

      ..Or.. Will Negistrem/Negistron made switchable suffice? :)
      +m

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  5. Haha, first page Google threw up was a discussion about how difficult it was to get the right transistors. Then I listened to this:

    http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/000/negistrem_fuzz.mp3.html

    Not what I had in mind, but hell yes I want to build that!

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    1. I just drew it up as switchable :) I'll post it in a sec...
      +m

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  6. Oh I forgot to say, I used some substitutions, 4M7 instead of the 5M1 and I couldn't find any 82n or 3n9 caps so I had to use 2 in parallel and added and extra row, 47n + 33n instead of the 82n and 3n3 and 470p (which both fitted in the same holes) instead of the 3n9.

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  7. IVIark or Mirasol: first, thank you MUCHLY for the awesome layouts, you guys are amazing! I'm going to build this rebote and add the taptation daughterboard, I remember reading that the taptation daughterboard gets connected to pin 6 of the PT2399 (correct?) could one of you post a pic of where to connect on the rebotes' board? Thanks a ton in advance!

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    1. The top left hand wire on the Taptation layout goes to pin 6 of the PT2399.

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  8. Not working for me at all. Is it because I used a J201? I don't have any 2N5457. The signal doesn't seem to go past the transistor.

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    1. What voltages are you getting at the J201 pins?

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    2. I'll check it in a little bit and report back to you!

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    3. It's probably not the J201. Voltages:

      D: 7.13V
      S: 0.71V

      The regulator is providing 5.03V so it's fine as well.

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    4. What's that 5.1M for? I used two 10M in parallel since I didn't have anything closer. All other values are to the layout except the 2.4k, which is a 2.7k

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    5. It's part of the bias network, 2 x 10M in parallel would be fine

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    6. Yeah I thought so. I'm gonna build another circuit and see if it works. Btw, what would you reckon the difference if I make the 82nf, 100nf? I have a few 82nf but they're quite large so I'd rather use smaller ceramic 100nf instead unless it has a big impact on the delay. I'm guessing it will have a tonal difference on the delay tone?

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    7. 82n is just the value shown in the sample circuit in the PT2399 datasheet, but the Deep Blue Delay uses 100n's in that position so give it a try.

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  9. I wouldn't have thought this would be a problem, I socketed the 5457 in mine so I'll swap it for a J201 tomorrow and let you know if it's still working.

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    1. That's why I put a J201, because I didn't expect it to be a problem. I'm gonna have a fresh look at the whole circuit and see if I missed something.

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    2. I've just swapped out the 5457 and tried the J201 and it's working fine, it's just got a little less volume/gain. Sorry, it must be something else.

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    3. Yeah, I'll figure it out sooner or later. Thanks!

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    4. Okay guys, promise not to laugh! I figured out the problem. I wired the in and output jacks the wrong way around so it works fine when bypassed. Silly! I don't even know how I managed to do that. I've made close to 200 pedals now and this is a first!

      The delay works and it sounds pretty good I'd say!

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    5. Glad you got it sorted. What sort of delay time can you get out of it?

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    6. Oh don't expect anything less than a video demo from me in a bit ;) I had to run out so ill get to it in a few minutes!

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  10. Alrighty, I built this last night and added the taptation daughterboard, the whole thing works great! I did notice a bit of hiss/noise with the repeats & depth knobs turned up, I socketed the PT2399 and bought 20 of em all at once from Tayda, so I'm going to try a few different ones and see if it makes a difference in the hiss. It's still very useable, and with the taptation's switches & tap tempo stomp makes for some very interesting, ambient-spacey sounds; also very "warbly" & "Tapey" sounding. The switches actually do a lot and add a ton of variation, I'll make a video clip once I figure out how to use it well so I can demo it haha! Thanks for the awesome layouts!

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  11. just built this following the specs except I used a 4M7 resistor in place of the 5M1.

    Everything works but it seems that the repeats pot is only working on the last 25% of the sweep. It looks like the same thing is happening in the videos posted. Any idea how improve this.

    As a note i noticed on the rebote 2.5 it was using a 25k pot instead of the 50K.

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  12. Replies
    1. I didn't have any issues with this but I think I used a linear taper rather than a log one on the repeats pot, maybe try that. I used a 4M7 instead of the 5M1 so it can't be that that's the issue.

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    2. This is almost exactly the sample circuit from the PT2399 datasheet, and so things may have been refined a little more in the Rebote 2. It maybe that you get more of the sound you want by experimenting with the 18K resistor and the pot value but I've never played with the circuit and so can't really guide you on it. It's pretty easy to socket and experiment with values though if you want and we'd obviously be interested in what you find out. I noticed the V2 had a 100K Repeat pot though, V2.5 had the 25K, but I'd be interested in hearing how this affects the repeats.

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    3. Sorry I just noticed this has a log pot so yes, if the taper doesn't seem right then swapping for linear will be likely to make things the way you want them.

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  13. Is there any way to add a "mix" or "blend" knob?

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    1. Without adding extensively to the circuit, the best bet by far is just adding a small Split and Blend daughterboard to do all that for you.

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  14. Hi, I've built this to spec (aside from altering the 2.7k resistor to 2.4k because i didnt have one) but the signal coming through is very weak. if i turn up my amp i can hear it but it is significantly attenuated. I've replaced all transistors and the PT2399 multiple times with no luck. I've measured the voltages and got similar readings as geiri, but i used a 2N5457. as for the 2399, the only irregularities i've found when comparing voltage readings to others online are small voltage readings for pin 7 and 8 (less than 1V). that was compared to a V2 build, which read 0V for pin 7 and 8. i couldnt find any notes on a V1 build.
    am i supposed to be reading 0 on those pins? and if so any ideas as to why my build's different? I've been staring at it for hours and am finally admitting i need assistance.any input would be appreciated

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  15. The most common problem I've had with any PT2399 build is the 5v regulator. I used to use the small ones that look like any typical transistor but I've scrapped them and I always use the big-ass ones that you can screw to the enclosure for heatshrinking. I just bend them over so they don't take up much space.

    I've built loads of these delays with J201s and no problems.

    Here's the (probably) most common question. Have you checked properly for any soldering that might be bridging to somewhere it shouldn't? What I do when I have a problem is that I use a hack saw and saw between the tracks to completely clear them. Works perfectly!

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  16. Hello, is there some mod to add a tone control to the wet signal? it would made a great add to this circuit.

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  17. this pedal is on my board now. but i feel the delay is too dirty. how can i fix this, or this is the reason for them making the 2.0 and the 2.5 version? thanks and regards. :)

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  18. Do you know of anyway of increasing the wet signal volume here or Eliminating the dry signal? I'm looking to put one in a buffered blend loop so I'd like to keep it as wet as possible. Any ideas?
    Thanks,
    Samuel

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  19. Replies
    1. Take the output wire to a volume pot lug 3, lug 2 is the new output to your switch and lug 1 goes to ground. A 100K pot will work ok, but you'll also want to remove the 100K resistor from the output wire row to ground on the board. Just snip it out.

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  20. Thanks a lot for this. Just built it and it worked first time. I used 4M7 instead of 5M1 and 500pf and 50pf in paralell for the 560pf. Can't say how much I enjoy this site. Keep up the good work!

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  21. build today, sounds very good but whit hiss/noise related to the depth pot. any suggestion to solve this. I use 4M7 instead of 5M1 and 2K2 unstead of 2K4

    Thanks
    Paolo

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  22. So I finished it and it's working well the only problem is the volume drops a little below unity. How can I increase the volume to get the it the same as when it's bypassed? Thanks!

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  23. is it possible to use an LM317T instead of the 78L05?

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    1. Not in this layout as a direct replacement . Fot settin' the 387 to 5 volts you need to bias this regulator with 2 caps and two resistors, and theres no room.

      Maybe you'd want to build a small daughterboard with the 387 and wire it to the effects board.

      BR

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  24. Hi people, I see good reviews about this delay so I want to build it... Because I order my parts from taydaelectronics this regulators are available so I wonder if they are good substitution for the 78L05? Thanks Gogo

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    1. http://www.taydaelectronics.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=5v+regulator

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    2. http://www.taydaelectronics.com/l78l05acz-l78l05-78l05-5-volts-100ma-voltage-regulator-ic.html

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  25. I just completed this build and it sounds great with the exception of HORRENDOUS background noise/hiss. The only substitution I made was a 2N5458 instead of the 2N5457. Could this be the source of my problem?

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    1. If you've got multiple, try another PT2399. I've found that some of them hiss and some lock up.

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  26. I'm gonna build this one, soon. Are you planning to get the updated version out here?

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  27. I like the delay for clean signals. For super fuzz signals its hard to hear the delay. I tried added a jfet minimal blender and delays were the same volume turned all the way up. Is there a mod to a resistor to get more of a wet signal that anyone has come up with? Also would the 2.5 have any difference at producing more of a wet signal? Last question is the wet signal at 100% for this rebote delay? Thanks in advance

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  28. Just buid it and really suprised about the awesome sound i can get with this circuit!!!
    Very highly recommended!!!

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  29. Hello,a newbie's question....is there a recommended substitute for the 2n5457? I'm gonna build this pedal but it's out of stock at tayda's right now....

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  30. J201 is a standard direct sub for 2n5457

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  31. Is there a pcb layout for this version anywhere? I dig the low parts count and 2 knob simplicity. Thanks

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  32. Is there a way to add a tap tempo to this delay?

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    Replies
    1. Look up 'taptation'. It's an IC developed by The Tone God that can add tap tempo functionality to various delays.

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