Monday, 14 January 2013

Ibanez TM5 - Thrashmetal

Continuing with another Soundtank - Now it is time to grab your baseball cap, turn the visor up and write "NOT!" on it. It is a massive board (still fits comfortably in 1590B) but it sounds really sweet. With enough treble and gain it made even me, the old punk to play thrash. Actually. I was very recently bitten by guitar bug and the disease is killing me... I went to local second-hand instrument shop to look around and they had this thing on the shelf. For 45 euros. I think the price is correct, but you still might want to build this in a box that it deserves. I do think all the soundtanks are gathering value a bit by bit - so why not use proper box and true bypass to get the sound without the slightly embarrassing plastic beetle on your pedalboard. Smart person would have gathered the whole set when they cost next to nothing. Oh well. Built it, so it's verified.

Original unit has 2SC1815 for transistors and 2SK118 for JFET - once again i drew the layout to accomodate more common pinouts (2N3904 and 2N5457). It will work and sound *amazing* with the ones i used, but you might want to socket them and try out what you like the best.

My little thrashin' clip. Yup. That's single coils:)






35 comments:

  1. Nice! Me likey the ole timey pedals. I've owned a Pearl OD5 forever and have always loved the 1-band parametric EQ on it. I think you'd be making a lot of folks very happy (and me!) if you did a layout for the OD5. I uploaded a schematic I found to my photobucket; [IMG]http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj138/saintOlav/Guitars%20and%20stuff/PRIVATE%20schematics%20and%20layouts%20PRIVATE/PearlOD5sch.gif[/IMG]
    Here's a webpage with a lot more info; http://topopiccione.atspace.com/PJ07PearlOD5.html
    And a YT link; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuESoltnSbw

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    1. Has been on my to-do list for a while. Will be massive board so i can't promise to post it anytime soon...
      +m

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    2. Would be greatly appreciated. I do seem to be prown to requesting huge builds... hmmm, compensating maybe? LOL
      If you need any pics or other info taken straight from the PCB let me know.

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    3. I think topopiccione documentation will suffice..
      +m

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  2. I`m finding this layout a bit hard to read, seems kinda small and lo res, Shit, i`m getting old.

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    1. try to move the picture to a new tab, then you can see it in full resolution.

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  3. Is it just me or is this being called "Trashmetal" lol. Maybe it's an improvement?

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    1. Oh.. Don't know why i've written it wrong :) I'll fix that right away :)
      +m

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  4. The ibanez TM-5 was my first guitar pedal as a kid. That soundtank pedal design was not very good, half the time it wouldn't turn on or off...
    It didn't sound very thrash metal ither. More of an overdrive than a distortion.
    Never thought anyone would care to clone this pedal, but there you go!
    :D

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  5. My interest for these started when i rehoused a SP5 for a friend. That had to be cloned and modded. With a few value changes, it become really great bass distortion..

    Most, if not all the original soundtanks have serious problems with super low quality momentary switch controlling the low quality flip-flop switching circuitry. Not to mention that plastic beetle casing, which doesn't really do justice for the circuit itself.

    In my experience, once the switching buffers have been removed, these usually become pretty nice pedals. Same thing here. Personally i like it a lot.

    A few years back you could score basically any soundtank for something like 10-20 usd. Nowadays, when most of the units are in the landfills around the world, the prices are much much higher. I know a few "pros", who use DL5 and TL5 as their main pedals even today. Soundtanks - Highly underrated pieces of japanese cloning/mod history :)

    If any of you have any soundtank (working of not), and want to sell it to me for $10 - Let me know :)

    To be completely honest, i rather clone soundtanks than most "original" boutique boxes. :)

    +m

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  6. Nice sounding pedal. How critical is the value of the 3k resistor running between pins 6 & 7 on the IC? I've just built this board and I put a 3.3k in its place. I just dawned on me I could have used a 1.5k in its place and another 1.5k replacing the jumper to bring me to 3k. Should I de-solder/re-solder before I wire it up in the box?

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    1. 3K3 will be just fine. Don't think that'll make a noticeable difference.
      +m

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    2. Thanks. ps love the layouts, they are art!

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  7. What are the diodes? Have you done any other thrashy layouts?

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    1. I'll add diode info tonight.. The upper one is for polarity protection (1N5817 or 1N4001) and the pair is 1N4148 or 1N914.

      +m

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    2. And added.

      I'm not aware of other thrash labeled, simple(r) circuits..
      +m

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  8. Thanks, ..and then i shall get on and make one :-)

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  9. Thanks for the layout, job done. Great pedal... it's got a real 'zing' to the distortion that I like. 1n4148 and 1n4004 used for diodes. If it had a mid boost I'd retire my Guv'nor.

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    1. http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.fi/2012/09/demeter-fat-control.html

      Put that in front of it :)
      +m

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  10. Hey, what would you say this guy is based on? I have a TM5 Soundtank on my board and Its a killer heavy overdrive/medium distortion. To me, its in the Gov'nor / Rat gain range, but I'd like to know if it was based directly on another circuit. Actually,I've got a soundtank tremolo and TS5 on my board as well...:-)

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    1. Really don't know what it's really based on, but basically it has some of Rat's features, but more stuff driving the tone control etc. I really don't know better, but i'm thinking it's Ibanez original. :)

      If you're interested, Dirk Hendrik has the schematic up at his tech pages:
      http://dirk-hendrik.com/techstuff.html
      +m

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    2. Definite a modded Rat, it even has the same dual high pass filters at the first opamp inverting input. But this has an extra opamp stage between the gain and the output JFET buffer, which is filter, and the presence of the gyrator portion I think suggests it is bandpass but I'm not 100% on that. So yes basically a Rat with a more advanced filtering stage.

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  11. ^ Thanks you guys for answering my 1st post! :-)

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  12. Hi and thanks for the many excellent layouts!

    I was pondering on building this one just because TM-5 was my first distortion pedal ever (back in the mid 90's). Later I sold my TM-5 to a friend and recently I had a chance to try that very same pedal! The sound wasn't something that I'd use on my projects today, but nevertheless I'd like to build one..."just in case" :)

    Now, to the question!
    I've checked the layout a dozen times, but it seems that Q1/C connects to nothing. Should it be connected to +9V? Have I missed something? To the left of Q1 the collector-track is cut under the 10k resistor and to the right the track is cut after the 820R/68nF.

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    1. Alkuun terveiset suomen turusta. Täällä sataa.

      Very good call! Yes, there should be +9V to the Q1 collector. I'll fix the layout accordingly. If you built yours already, just take a wire from D3 cathode to Q1 collector.

      I have the board i build and used for that demo clip right here on my desk. What makes this mistake funny on my behalf - is that the board sounds 1:1 with my original unit even without the +9V to the collector.

      Huge thanks for the note! I'll post the fixed layout in a second. ...And fixed.

      This one is really good sounding circuit and well worth a build if you're not into collecting Soundtanks. I wrote a few words about my original unit here: http://mirosol.kapsi.fi/2013/07/ibanez-tm5-thrashmetal/
      +m

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    2. Aww...that reply WAS supposed to be right here. Well, next time!

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  13. Terveiset suomen mansesta, täällä ei vieläkään sada! :D Pilvistä kylläkin. Kohta se joulu koittaa!

    You're welcome! I haven't built it yet, but if yours works fine without that "little clitch" then I bet I would've missed it too, royally :)

    So, you mean that the layout would work without Q1? That IS funny. That being said, what is the function of Q1 in this?

    I have built up an appetite for pedals for a while now. I thought that by building a few pedals myself I could learn a thing or two about what makes 'em tick AND what pedals I'd be willing to buy :)

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    1. My hunger for Ibanezes got a bit out of hand.. Wainting for OT10 and MT10 to arrive any day now :P Only 2 more soundtanks missing, once i find those - i'll have entire lineup of 20 designs. To this point, there's been only one really disappointing design in those. Soundtanks are just awesome.

      Q1 and that side of the opamp looks like a bandbass filter created by gyrator. Can't say for sure, but that's quite similar filter to what you can find in many Ibanez (and Boss and other) circuits. Can't be bothered to try and calculate it...

      Maybe i'll try my board with and without the voltage...

      Yup. Works with and without the Q1 (which i have also labeled pretty stupidly as "1"). I took the voltage to the collector and it sounds a bit fatter with the transistor on. And a bit more "out of control" without it. Subtle changes, but still noticeable.

      If someone wants to, they could use a switch for supplying the Q1 collector in other position and cut the voltage in other. That switch would be "Fat/Wild" :)

      Good experiment. And thanks! Corrections are always welcome.
      +m

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    2. Haha, accidental chance for a mod :) No prob! It's all for the common good ;)

      Now I just can't get this thought out of my head; Alexi Fat/Wildchild Laiho :D I think I'm going to name my clone COB (even if TM-5 doesn't actually resemble their sound) and make the Fatchild/Wildchild switchmod :D This is NOT in spite of COB or Mr.Laiho (just in case any other COB fan sees this).

      Yeah, I've seen some Boss schematics with gyrators, so I know what you mean! With my experience, sometimes it's just difficult to trace things from a veroboard. From a schematic it would be somewhat easier.

      Hmm, just recalled that a buddy of mine from work is going on a business trip to the USA and he's a pedal-collector (well, that term in this case got me laughing under a second :D) in some sense. I think I'm going to persuade him to bring me a pedal.
      Any suggestions? I'm into rock music in general, trash/metal being the main output :) Somehow all that makes sense now :D

      -JP

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    3. That mod idea won't be bad! Quite subtle, but still good.

      Some US made DODs might also be worth of bringing over. Those are on the verge of becoming "vintage", so their prices are getting higher every day. For example - http://www.americaspedal.net/fx59/
      That seems to be quite rare here in finland. Plus it's virtually no-go for vero with 6 dual opamps.

      joko se sade levittäytyi sinne? Täällä on tullut eilisestä asti yhtä soittoa...
      +m

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    4. Yep, that switch will definitely find it's place on my build :)

      Just took a look at the layouts here and...man, you've been busy with cracking those DODs :) And thanks, I will take a look at the pages of Miami area guitar shops if they'd have any DODs to sell. Guitar Center must be the biggest of them and they have only 2 DOD pedals (FX25 / VAC270)... But we'll see how it goes!

      Aamuyöstä oli näköjään satanut. Vedenpaisumusta odotellessa. Onneksi ei asu pohjanmaalla ;)

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  14. Now that i've played a lot with my boxed circuit (http://mirosol.kapsi.fi/varasto/boxes/ThrasheR.jpg) and A/B'd it with my original unit (http://mirosol.kapsi.fi/2013/07/ibanez-tm5-thrashmetal/) and can say that the circuit is just awesome. I think original may have linear pot for volume, but otherwise there's not much difference. It is much more of an overdrive than a high gain distortion and very, very good at that i might add. I do believe that the reason for this (and most other soundtanks) have bad rep it because all of you, me included, used these boxes with really bad amplifiers back in the 90s - the dark ages of everyone having solid state amps and Valvestate was the king.

    I'd recommend this build. Definitely. It has usable gain levels throughout the sweep, tone is more of an presence, and the output level is sufficient. This can be used as a slight booster to full on distortion. Much more versatile than the Ibanez markiting crew wanted us to believe in those days. As a clone it's not as embarrasing to play with. :)

    One more time. Recommended.
    +m

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  15. Yes i also recommend this one. Spent a while (few months) trying to figure out why i couldn't get it working properly. Got a very weak signal which could be amplified by other pedals but was so quiet on its own. Rewired and still nothing. Eventually came across an unsoldered end to the long single jumper on the left. So glad i found that as i was about to recycle it. Now sounds really good. I go along with Miro some nice variation from this one.

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  16. FWIW, I prefer my metal case Thrashmetal to a whole host of medium gain pedals that I own, Including a big box RAT, Barber Small Fry and MIJ DS-1.Really...not pulling your collective legs! :-DD

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  17. FWIW, I prefer my metal case Thrashmetal to a whole host of medium gain pedals that I own, Including a big box RAT, Barber Small Fry and MIJ DS-1.Really...not pulling your collective legs! :-DD

    ReplyDelete