Details of the original pedal:
The Riot, as its name playfully hints, is a high-gain distortion box that will make a small clean tube combo sound like a raging stack. We have heard many distortion boxes and were never quite satisfied with how they sounded or felt with a clean amp. We wanted the sonic characteristics of the distortion and the way the pedal reacted to your touch like a high-gain 100w tube head. After much testing, re-working, and re-builds of the Riot over a period of a year, we are finally satisfied with how it performs and sounds in real world music applications with pro musicians performing live or in the studio. The Riot will make you forget that you're playing through a pedal.
It works with the amp to deliver a big full sound that never sounds artificial or overly electronic. There are no bees-in-the-jar buzziness, harsh high-end or tubby lows that are often what you hear in high-gain distortion pedals. Again, a pedal is highly dependent on the amp it's connected to and how the amp is set, but the Riot will perform exceedingly well with virtually any decent tube amp out there - even with old vintage-style Blackface type of amps. Get musical distortion and an amp-like feel from the Riot. If you need alternative high-gain sounds without adding another amp, the Riot is the ticket to high-gain heaven in a small package.
It works with the amp to deliver a big full sound that never sounds artificial or overly electronic. There are no bees-in-the-jar buzziness, harsh high-end or tubby lows that are often what you hear in high-gain distortion pedals. Again, a pedal is highly dependent on the amp it's connected to and how the amp is set, but the Riot will perform exceedingly well with virtually any decent tube amp out there - even with old vintage-style Blackface type of amps. Get musical distortion and an amp-like feel from the Riot. If you need alternative high-gain sounds without adding another amp, the Riot is the ticket to high-gain heaven in a small package.
Madbean's Uproar V2:
jymaze's mods:
Any idea how these versions compare to the original? Specifically what about each layout is "modded" (apart from the obvious addition of tone/clipping switches in the madbean version)?
ReplyDeleteIt seems to be up for debate. Plenty feel that Madbean's version was just like the original (but with more options with all the mods), some weren't satisfied with it, hence the jymaze changes. Madbean's (as far as I know) was a match for the original or at least extremely close, but has the mids, presence and facemelt mods which didn't appear in the Riot. Jymaze's has more component value changes and so isn't as closely matched in the basic circuit.
DeleteIn terms of which is best, dunno. Build both I reckon! :o)
Thanks! I've got the original, so I will be interested to A/B and find out. Will post results...
DeleteExcellent, I'll look forward to hearing what you think.
DeleteHI
ReplyDeleteim pretty new at this..can you explain what it means abt the double links in single holes ??..BTW built the TS9 from your layout and it sounds really nice..thanks
It just means that the end of one link and the start of another go in the same hole. There's plenty of room for 2 links in a vero hole (especially if you're using offcuts of resistorsor diodes etc) so it shouldn't be too tight to get them both in there.
DeleteThanks for that..it was what I thought but didnt understand the reason for it, any chance of explaining briefly ??
DeleteI don't do it if there's plenty of room, but if you look at where I have done it, it's the 9V and ground connections for the opamps, both fed from a central 9V and ground rail. If I didn't do it, it means that the middle ground link (between rows 8 and 13) would have to move to the left hand side of IC2, and because that is fully popluated it means I'd have to include an extra column. And again with the 9V links, if I had to move the lower link (between rows 7 and 10) to the right hand side of IC2 then again it would require an additional column adding just to add the link.
DeleteSo in instances like that where it avoids an additional 2 columns I'd much prefer to solder 2 links into a single hole, especially as there is no physical or electrical reason not to.
Thanks..I guess thats why you do the boards and I just copy them lol...Im really trying to learn instead of just " do " but im finding it hard going, having said that ive only been building for a couple of months and have learned a great deal in that time and have successfully built 10 pedals both on pcb and vero. A big thank you for taking the time to answer my newbie questions and for the site in general .
ReplyDeleteIt's great that's you're trying to understand why certain things have been done. I was exactly the same and was never happy unless I could try and understand something as best I could. I found that after looking at thousands of schematics, reading electronics books (especially about amplifiers and filters initially) and listening to everything that knowledgeable people said about these effects, eventually everything started coming together and I could follow what was happening in the circuits. After that, it's much easier getting your head round doing the layouts, whether they be vero, PCB or whatever.
DeleteI'm still far from an electronics expert (by background is industrial electrical engineering not electronic), but I'm at a level I'm comfortable with that makes the hobby more enjoyable for me. Keep it up, it's very rewarding.
I have my beads on this one. Is there much difference from the original to say jymaze's mods? I ask because as I've not heard the original, I'd rather start with that first and then mod if I feel the need. Thanks
ReplyDeleteI haven't played either yet mate but there seems to be a split on it, some people liked Madbean's better which is more like the original, others thought jymaze's mods made it a much better pedal so which will work best with SG into DSL I don't know yet.
DeleteMy intention was to do Madbean's first and see what I thought of it, but I'll probably end up doing both anyway.
Yes, the only reason I was shying away from madbeans is the 3 switches! ... thought I'd start on a simpler one. plus not sure I can cram madbeans into a small case?
DeleteWell you don't HAVE to do switch 2 and 3 on the Madbean one, they're just options too. The only one that is a must is the switch 1 for the diodes.
DeleteOh right, great!... I'll have a go at this then.. need some blue LED's though... Can I leave anything out of the circuit as I'm leaving two switches out?
DeleteNo everything else remains the same. And make sure you get SP3T or DPDT on/on/on switches, DPDT on/off/on won't work. I just bought a few DP3T from a UK eBay seller but think he's run out of stock :o(
DeleteCool ok.. The IC's are all in China, the 11k3's and 8k25's are £3 for 50 each and I can't find any 36nf's lol!! Why can parts be more available... :(
DeleteYep and no switched either... well that was short lived....I'll maybe come back to it.
DeleteJRC4558 (or TL072, or NE5532 etc etc), 11k or 12k, 8.2k and 33nf mate. You never need the exact weird inbetween values. Although I just checked and it seems to confirm by hoarder status, I do actually have all those values. No wonder I get so much grief! :o)
Deletehaha, I'm the same, give it a few years and I'll have colour coded boxes. printing out little sticky labels and developing a very pale complexion.
DeleteCheers mate, I'll get ordering then :o)
Ok made this, works but not like it should.. Firstly the meadbeans switches are not worth the bother, they make little to no difference. Secondly, in comparison to the demo's this is seriously lacking in distortion. And lastly when you roll back the gain it completely loses all treble and sounds more like a tone knob.. Basically it's nothing like the demos unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteI used all components as suggested above.
I'll go over it mate and see if I can see anything
DeleteOk mate, just been over my wiring etc and I'm pretty confident with this one as I took GREAT care as I had high hopes for this pedal. The only difference I made was using a 10k linear for volume but the volume sweep seems ok with that.
DeleteI've just been over the layout and the only thing I can see is that I have one misplaced link. The link going from the Tone 1/2 row to IC1 pin 3 should be going to pin 2, so if you can remove that link and stuff it in the same hole as the little link above it will sort it. But I can't really see that making too much difference. The output of that IC is the Vbias point, but you'll get half of the supply voltage on pin 3 as well.
DeleteBut to be correct to the scheme that needs doing.
You're right mate, no difference.. Tried swapping the IC's with no joy. Nevermind. To be honest, the lack of distortion etc aside it's very un inspiring. The switches are so subtle you barely notice them.It sounds near identical to the purple plexi yet the plexi is far simpler.
DeleteThinking about that, would there be a possible 'voice' mod switch for the plexi?...(I'll post this question on the plexi thread).
Vince, I'm building one now so I'm running into the same issues.
ReplyDeleteThe on-on-on switch is available from Smallbearelec.com for $2.70.
For C8 you can use 33nF. Suhr may have specified 33nF; a 10% tolerance could turn that into 36nF.
Check out Madbean's build PDF even if you're not using his layout. At freestompboxes, he says:
"In CJ's original tracing he had C2 (my schematic) listed as 22n, which is a huge bad ass bass rolloff at the top of the circuit. I listed mine as 47pF because that seemed more appropriate, and instead included the mid-range boost mod in the Uproar which closely captures that idea. After experimenting with the two different values, 47pF and 22n I was able to get the whole tone range of the Riot, just not with one cap only. So, it may be that C8 and C9 (my schem) need a little more tweaking to offset the difference, but I believe with my Presence mod it will cover the entire range without needing to do that, and in fact add more versatility."
So if I'm reading that right, if you use 47pF as your input cap, you must also reduce C10 from 36nF to 10nF, and probably do the midrange mod. But if you're using 22nF for your input cap (as in the original trace,) 33nF - 36nF should be good. (unsure.)
Somewhere else Brian (madbean) mentioned he changed D8 and D9 both to red LEDs. Everyone seems to have followed suit, but what were the originals I wonder? His partlist lists D8 as 1n914 OR LED so I presume it was one LED and one silicon. I guess I'll try that and see what happens.
Hi, The biggest issue I had was a huge lack of distortion in comparison to the demo's. But my evaluation above was very sceptical as I'm a novice builder and the results I got could well of been my error. If I were to make it again (which I want to)I'd probably start with a stock Riot. The tone sounded very nice but it just sounded like it was being held back from opening up, if that makes sense?.
DeleteLoaded up the board for this right now, and i just noticed something... you say your layout is based on Madbean's V2... Madbean doesn't have a 33n cap on pin 5 of IC2, but it does have a 1u cap (C10 in his schematic) before pin 3. any reason for these changes?
ReplyDeleteand your ICs might be mislabeled, as the 100p cap should be between pins 1 & 2 of IC1, again based on Madbean's layout.
DeleteYes it's based on Madbean's Uproar V2, but I haven't used the IC channels that he had on his scheme, instead using ones that suited the flow of the layout better. It doesn't matter though, the IC channels are independent and it doesn't matter whether I use the left hand or right hand channel, or even a channel on a different IC to that labelled on the schematic. I could have done the whole thing with a single quad opamp and even though the numbering would have changed, the layout would still match the scheme. For instance, the 33n you mention, I have going to the non-inverting input of IC2 channel 2, Brian has it going to the non-inverting input of IC2 channel 1.
DeleteBean - IvIark
IC1A - IC2A
IC1B - IC1B
IC2A - IC2B
IC2B - IC1A
Oh duh, gotcha on the ICs, should've realized that. But why 33n and not 1uf into the input of IC2?
DeleteBecause this is based on his V2 uproar where C10 was 33n. His latest one uses a 1u, so maybe socket the position and just keep the one in that you prefer.
Deleteah cool, i thought i was looking at his V2 schem. Thanks very much!
DeleteC10 is 33nF if you're doing the Facemelter mod. Otherwise, it's C10 of 1uF, shifted to "CP" if you're doing the presence mod. C10 is a rather confusing spot in the schematic depending on what mods you choose.
DeleteI've also seen a C10k being used for tone? not sure if that has any relevance on my tone pot not having any effect.
ReplyDeletea 10k C pot (reverse log) won't change things all that much, it'll just give you more room in the middle of the pot's sweep. If the tone isn't working at all with a 10k A or B, then the problem lies somewhere else.
DeleteI had a feeling as much. I'm anticipating someone successfully building this as I want to rebuild it ;o)
DeleteI've just seen on another thread something about ultra bright LED's having a different effects on the circuit. I'm not positive but pretty sure the LED's I used for this are 'ultra's'... now do you think that might of been why my distortion was lacking?
ReplyDeletePossibly mate, it all depends on the forward voltage. I've stayed away from ultra brights so far simply because I've not seen them used in a pedal and so am not sure how they will affect things and have stuck to the normal types.
DeleteHey Mark - what do the white dots mean in your layout? Do I jumper across and also solder connections at the white dots?
ReplyDeleteBTW, thanks for all the amazing layouts. You have a great site. I can't wait until you break a million page views! It can't be long. I am on here every day!
The white holes show where there is a double link so one link goes from that hole up, another link goes from the same hole down. And thanks for your words about the blog.
DeleteThanks! Hopefully I get some time to get this built this week!
ReplyDeleteHi - the layout says "Tone 3 to Sw5". Which is Sw5? Also, is there only a single connection that goes to Sw3 (the one that goes to lug 5)?
ReplyDeleteI was able to build with just Sw1, and it works beautifully, but I just got the switches in for Sw2 & Sw3. Thanks for the help!
Hey there - sorry to bug, but any help on the question above? I am hoping to tackle tonight if possible... Thanks!
ReplyDeleteSw5 is the 5th lug on switch 1. The text was copied over from the other layout which is why the switch wasn't further identified. There are two connections from the board for Sw3.
DeleteThanks, Mark. Sorry I missed those.
ReplyDeleteEarlier you mentioned that switch 2 and 3 can be left out. Are there any new connections that need to be made, like a jumper or something in place of the switch?
ReplyDeleteNo just omit them
DeleteHi IvIark,
DeleteNow there's a new layout coming out, I have seen your updated layout at FSB, nice one, is the new one really that close to the riot? :D
Love this pedal, great sound on a clean amp! Only thing is the amount of bottom end - can I reduce the bass slightly by lowering the input cap do you think?
ReplyDeleteHi everyone, I love this pedal. It's the best distortion I've ever had!!! AWESOME!!! build it!!!!
ReplyDeleteLook this video of this schematic in work!!! Incredible!!!
Thanks!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQbPx4zS55g