Controls
Level: Sets the volume of the overdriven signal.
Drive: Sets the amount of saturation in the overdriven signal.
Blend: Mixes the clean input signal with the overdriven signal. The clean signal remains at unity gain while the volume of the overdriven signal is set by the Level knob, allowing for fine control of the blend ratio.
Grunt Switch: Sets the amount of low frequency content to saturate by selecting between three different bass boost levels before the clipping stage.
Attack Switch: Sets the amount of treble content to saturate: The œBoost setting emphasizes the treble content extra clarity and presence. The œFlat position leaves this register untouched while the œCut position will reduce the amount of high frequencies being saturated. This new addition helps to keep the treble portion of the signal under control, specially useful when playing with new strings and/or cabinets with tweeters."
You can find the original FSB thread and schematic here.
The layout (like the Friedman BE-OD) has been verified as "working" in the forum section but the original has been built using SMD components and there's been some "guessing" in some of the values.
I don't know how close it is to the B3K (it may be 100%) but this is the best schematic we can get at the moment.
Alex you are the best!!A thousand thanks!!!
ReplyDeleteI was just reading up on this last week. Due to inaccurate values, i deemed it "unclonable" for the moment - for myself. But now i'd be quite interested to hear if someone builds one and compares it to the original. Chances of that happening just multiplied on a logarithmic scale. Good work Alex! Nice and tidy layout!
ReplyDelete+m
Thanks Miro. I wasn't sure if the schematic was good or not but I'm not sure we'll get a better one. Gavin has verified the layout in the Forum but he doesn't have an original one to compare it to. It sounds good though. I've thought by putting it on the main page (like the Friedman) someone may be able to build it and tell us how close it sounds to the original. I've worned people in the introduction but (like the schematics' links) some people won't read it and then complain about it ;)
DeleteMost likely :) However, like i said - the chance of getting more info and comparison test is now way higher since a lot of competent builders may take this on.
Delete+m
Awesomes! Thanks for posting this one.
ReplyDeletePretty new to the site and I'm already hooked after building my Sunn Model T preamp. Looking forward to building this but I can't seem to figure out which are the two transistors types used here? I apologize for my beginner's question in case it's something super obvious.
ReplyDeleteThey're both J201s it's a JFET transistor.
DeleteThanks for the quick reply! Now the shopping list is complete.
DeleteWatch out for shitty JFETs, there's lots of fakes out there, especially on eBay.
DeleteGot the pedal up and working and I have to say I like it a lot. The only issue I can't seem to wrap my head around is that turning the Drive pot up past 90% leads to lower sound and slight cutting out. Turning it back a bit gives the proper sound without any issues. Is the drive pot somehow letting the signal get pushed too hard? Can this be solved by adding a resistor somewhere or using a pot with a different value?
DeleteI have similar issues with you. Mine has a loud popping/crackling sound while the clean sound is present, I will check on it if my Drive pot is past 90% though.
DeleteHmmmm. I wonder if this was taken from my blog. Traced this out a while ago. I now have PCBs that do both versions
ReplyDeleteInitial trace
http://peperspedals.blogspot.co.nz/2017/02/a-brief-guide-into-tracing-out-pcb-to.html
Second post
http://peperspedals.blogspot.co.nz/2017/03/b3k-clone-update.html
Been meaning to do a new post with my newest versions. Also Currently designing a tone stack. So far I've tried a few different things and I'm not happy yet. Better keep tinkering.
Get some SMD JFETs and little adapter boards from diyguitarpedals.com.au and you won't have those sourcing issues! Paul rules.
DeleteCharles. I'm using SMD J201s for everything now.
DeleteAlex. I did share this with Miro a while back over facebook but at that stage if hadn't verified it. No dramas I'm not that worried. At least it's out and about and making the rounds. Just a word of warning Doug has contacted a few people and threatened legal action against clones of this effect. I'm sure if the schematic is slightly different and you don't use the trademarked names if will be ok.....well ok ish.
I'm sorry Tony. I didn't know that. I've deleted my previous post. :)
DeleteHey.. No problems at all matey. Keep up the great work.
DeleteLove the work of you guys. So many great layouts. I have built at least 60 different veros from this site.
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DeleteHello Tony,
DeleteI have compared my schematic, which is the one in the fsb thread, with yours, and they are exactly the same. I drew mine tracing the guma drive board.Where did you get your shematic?
Hey Miguel. Yeah I traced out a GUMA. Also made some PCBS that do both effects on the same board with a few component changes. I found the VMT needs a 1M pull up resistor on the second to last opamp stage otherwise it sounds horrible and farty. Will do another blog post on my blog about my new versions at some stage.
DeleteIs the 4049 buffered or unbuffered? And will this fit into a 1590B? I'm not sure what the max board size is that will fit one. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteUnbuffered
DeleteHi. I write here, because I don't found another place. Only want to tell you that I don't see a search form in your site to find post faster. It will add to your page the final 1% to reach the 100% of perfection.
ReplyDeleteumm, in Chrome there's a search bar on the top left cornere here.
ReplyDeleteAnd as an alternative - go to Site map and CTRL+F ;)
Hi. It's not the same. Ctrl+F is for make a search in the active page of the site. An embeded search form, is for make a search in the entire site.
DeleteThis other search bar, I didn't found it the first time. Now I see it. Thanks.
I have one of these and honestly don't see what all the fuss is about.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's any better than the Boss ODB-3 or Fulltone Bassdrive...
I'll be putting it up on Ebay soon, unless one of you would like it?
Just based on the demo, I really don't get the hype with this one either. Maybe it's like the Timmy of the bass world or something :)
DeleteI have a original Bassdrive as well but I find the B3K to be a completely different animal than Bassdrive with my setup. The B3K really makes my Rick & Ampeg growl in a way the Bassdrive just can't. Still like the Bassdrive though and it's been on my pedalboard for over a decade. Now it's got a B3K next to it.
DeleteHi Jonas! Would you call it verified?
DeleteWell I've never gotten to try an original, and I have a slight issue with the Drive pot starting to cut out after being turned past 90%, but I might chalk that one up as some kind of beginner error (third thing ever soldered together). I would certainly say it sounds extremely like what is being said about it and the sound clips I've heard. And like I said, I will be using it as a permanent fixture on the pedalboard since it really has a "zing" and growl to it. Will just try to sort out the Drive pot issue at some point. I would wait for someone with more building experience or access to the original to truly verify it.
DeleteThanks Jonas. I will build one of this and check if I'll have the same result. On FSB they didn't mention any problem with the Drive pot but...
DeleteOn another subject: we need to verify 3 more circuits to reach 1000!!!
DeleteI'll verify Jonas' post and confirm that it's a working layout. Finally finished mine today and it's a GREAT pedal.
ReplyDeleteThanks Paul! Had no time to build one yet! Is your Drive pot working 100% (Jonas had some problems)?
DeleteNo issues with the drive control to report, not really had a proper play with it yet though.
DeleteOk. I've built this and (although the Drive pot is working correctly) it doesn't sound as gainy as the videos. Also the Grunt switch isn't working correctly in the middle (Off) position. Do you have the same problems?
DeleteDid you use SMD or through hole Jfets?
DeleteMine does the weird thing when the gain gets past 3 o'clock, but I'll keep it as it is as I rarely go past noon. Sounds great.
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DeleteI also have a problem with the Grunt switch in the middle position Alex.
ReplyDeleteIf the drive pot Is on 85% or more I get some strange oscillations. (but the oscillations disappear when I turn down the drive pot)
It's exactly the same (J201's are good). I'm 99% sure the layout is correct. In that case there must be something wrong with the schematic or some other issues that I can't see. Does your gain sound as strong as in the original's videos?
DeleteNo the gain isn't as aggressive as the video and I think that the switches does very little compared to the video. ( I have never tested the original)
DeleteI used J201 from musikding that should be good but I have ordered SMD-ones and adaptor boards to test with.
I've been debugging my board, and I have the idea this is some DC-offset issue: with high drive the opamp is going out of bounds. I think some DC-decoupling cap is missing in the original design.
DeleteBuilt this last week (much to the delight of my bass player) and it works great. No problems whatsoever when the gain is dimed, nor with any of the switches. All seems to work as it should. Absolutely top job guys!!
ReplyDeleteMine has the same low gain/ switch problem that other people have experienced. And I've built 2 different layouts! Does it sound like the videos?
DeleteYes matey, or as close as could be expected given rig differences. Both switches seem to work as they should (low saturation boost on switch 1, treble boost on switch 2, straight gain when both centred), and an abundance of gain with no unwanted noise. Maybe I just got lucky? Only notable diversion on my part is that I used a linear 100k for the drive pot, since I had no rev logs in.
DeleteIt works to a degree that my bass player is more than happy with at any rate.
In fact, now you mention it you're right. Should have paid more attention to the video. It sounds great once you start flicking the switches, but is actually decidedly lighter on the gain with them both set to centre. All the gain hits when the pot is at about 75%. Bizarre, I could have sworn it was working as it should. Serves me right for not spending more than a few minutes with it.
DeleteCase reopened.
Mine has low gain for some reason
ReplyDeleteAnd low volume too, I dont think the switches work right either.
DeleteWow...Thaks
ReplyDeletePlease another Darkglass pedal and tc electronic spectra compressor bass.....
Hello guys!
ReplyDeleteJust saw this thread! It was me that drew the circuit in fsb thread! Very proud that you used it here! :D
Unfortunately is not perfect! but well, I done my best!
I built it using tone transfer (you may find my tone transfer in the fsb thread). I used a Guma drive board to trace the circuit and compared it side by side they seems exactly the same. My thought about it:
I tried it with a sadowsky metro bass that allows me to turn on and off the active preamp. And it's a huge difference. The passive sounds so much better! When I use in active mode I have to turn the knobs at full to have a some nasty drive that is not even close to what I want. But in passive, I get that sound with Blend, drive and Level at 1 o'clock. When I turn to full rotation the Blend and Drive is nasty, gritty and awesome. If you put the level at full rotation it becomes very very loud compared to your clean sound, something that does not happen in active mode.
The grunt switch is very subtle in both, but also on the B7k that I tried. So, does not surprise me.
For the JFETs I used the smd version, MMBFJ201. I think they are way more consistent then the through all version. I found a nice adapters in Musikding that coverts to through hole footprint.
Cheers
If you are interested you may also find the VMT circuit in this thread.
Deletehttp://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25589
It is more consistent when comparing with active and passive basses and it sounds better in active basses. But In passive I prefer the B3k.
Help a scrub out?
ReplyDeleteI'm assuming the brown circles (22n, 220p, etc) are capacitors, yeah?
What are the yellow rectangles (2n2, 1u, etc)?
Also, where it says DSG, I take it those are J201s as indicated at the side of the diagram?
DeleteThose are also caps, different markings because of the different spacing. And yes the DSG is the J201.
DeleteThey are to form factors of film capacitors: MKT and polyester. You cannot simply use any capacitor for audio, as they don't all have a good transfer characteristic.
DeleteHi guys, I have posted on FSB and I will quote it here:
ReplyDelete"I am sorry if I might be off-topic but since Guma Drive was mentioned here, I have done both the Drive (B3k) and Antique (Vintage).
https://scontent-sin6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20374772_10213241516734053_2388814588029743446_n.jpg?oh=949843401576376530912738628f0d5b&oe=59F5B392
https://scontent-sin6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20431333_10213241516774054_1214977167890671195_n.jpg?oh=899d0b05bdd6a6db42e570d72d94338a&oe=59EE21AE
https://scontent-sin6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20596989_10213241516694052_8321330643929150071_n.jpg?oh=70346f9848e3ed4dc05caccf8eb3f2e3&oe=5A30B121
The Antique works fine but I am having a problem with the Drive (B3k) because I got a cutting out sound, it seems that the distortion sound will get disconnected and all that's left is the clean sound, but it sounded great when the distortion kicks in. It feels like something is wrong with the switching, I always got a loud pop or the best way to describe it is like when you are playing a clean sound and then someone was messing or plugging/unplugging a cable to your distortion (parallel) sound, or when you hit the tip of your cable/plug to your guitar jack when your amp is turned on, or it's like a crackling sound (my pots don't crackle when I rotate them). Both the clean and the messed up sound varies in time, maybe milliseconds away. One thing I noticed was that after several minutes of fiddling with the pots and toggle or just by leaving it untouched, the messed up sound disappears slightly but it is still there waiting to happen."
Anyone resolved the gain problem?Also mine sounds like defased or something, the B3K and VMT, like it's a time delay between the clean and overdriven sound...
ReplyDeleteAnyone? 3 builds allready and always the same problem - it sounds like high pitched shit, especially when you play on the hight strings...
ReplyDeleteAre you sure some of the opamps stages should invert the signal?Isnt the signal inverted after the CD4049 and the out of phase with the clean signal?
Switches are mislabeled. SW1 is grunt and SW2 is attack. I'll try to build one soon and I'll share the result.
ReplyDeleteSorted mine out the other day; I had a dodgy pot/wire that stopped it doing what it should. I also replaced the J201s with 2n5458s and fitted a TL072 instead of the NE5532 that I'd originally used for the dual opamp. Sounds GREAT!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe resistor for the LED (current limiting resistor). Start with a 2.2k or similar and if you need it brighter decrease the value or if it’s too bright then up it to 4.7k ish.
ReplyDeleteI've mounted this circuit one of this days. It sounds really great! I had one trouble only, and I saw some posts here with the same issue. The problem was that when the gain pot is set to more than 75%, the distorted portion of the sound kind of fades, leaving just the clean sound. In my case this effect was caused because I had only two TL072, and a lot of RC4558. So i've mounted the RC4558 instead and the circuit didn't work fully. After a lot of debuging, I figured out that this was caused by using the wrong IC. So I got some TL072 and everything went fine!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHey Alex, is there any chance you might do the Alpha-Omega by Darkglass in the future?
ReplyDeleteVery unlikely at the moment.
ReplyDeleteThere's no schematic available.
Are the diodes there for clipping or are they doing something else? I’m not overly familiar with 4049 chips.
ReplyDeleteTheir role is to protect the cmos input from any over positives or over negatives voltages. A voltage spike higher than vdd plus 0,7v makes the upper diode conduct; a spike with less voltage than gnd minus 0,7v makes the lower diode conduct.cmos devices are very sensitivy to voltage spikes.
ReplyDeleteit works fine and sounds good. i wonder guys is there a way to replace the switches with pots ?
ReplyDeletehere is a sound sample straight to the sound card
https://youtu.be/Rb6PXOuiqGA
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ReplyDeleteadd video, leak of the low-end be ignored by cellphone there mostly the pedal function response at, though you still can hear if play it a bit loud, video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtMgkCfLW3s&feature=youtu.be
DeleteHi Alex, before anything else, thank you for this layout. It's trully a remarkable job.
ReplyDeleteI'm facing a little problem with my unit.
When I switch it (on or off) it gives a very loud pop.
Tried to look for the usual culprits (led, grounded input, etc) with no luck.
Just to check I read voltage on output jack and it reads 4.1V. I'm not acquainted with electronics, but it seems to me this is the source of the pop.
Can you give me any hint on how to solve it?
Thanks a million!
Back... Just to let you know that I fixed it.
DeleteThe problem was a very tiny bridge between rows 1 and 2 around 1mF cap and 1K resistor.
Leasson learned. When trying to debug POP always measure voltage between output ground and tip.
Thanks you again Alex for this amazing layout.
Putting this at the end of my chain and it is a bit quiet, anyway to boost the output volume?
ReplyDeleteAs the b3k circuit operates with a blend function I think it's better to make the boost at the output stage. Once I tried to make a boost in the input buffer but it sucked... It changed the reponse of the overdrive signal path in a bad a way.
DeleteMaybe if you modify the last opamp buffer stage (pins 12, 13 and 14 of TL074). You could implement a MXR microamp in this last stage with just two resistors, two capacitors and an extra potentiometer.
In case you try this, please let me know :)
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ReplyDeleteMan this is one of the most troublesome pedals i have ever tried to do. I have two builds on the go and i just keep finding problem after problem.. I've completed one enough to use and i'm getting such an annoying ground hum but it doesn't when im powering from my regulated voltage output from the Soldering station i have. So im guessing it is something to do with the power supply and i need a power filter. thats a given BUT.. After all this aggro i seem to have is 3 very noisy volume pots with 2 dodgy switches lol. the middle selection don't seem to do much as i barely can hear it when switched to it and the grunt and boost election just adds a tad more gain but with a shit tonne of hum behind it from my power supply.
ReplyDeleteThere is definitely something up with this build and after reading here Im glad it isn't just me , I just hope someone soon can pin point why the gain loss on middle selection and whats the right Jfets to use as ones ive tried all seem to add a touch barely if any Grit to it.
Also anyone got round to creating a BK7 yet??
Hi. If you check the schematic again, the first capacitor after the input buffer is 1n, not 100n.I think that I like it better with the 100n
ReplyDeleteI have an original unit for repair. The Attack switch is on-on, and the Level pot is B100k.
ReplyDeleteOk, I looked the guts again, and tried to trace a little, and I can say that the above layout/schematic is quite different than the original. The unit I have says is pcb version 3.1.
DeleteHi. For all of you having problems with the drive pot at 100%, here's how I fixed it.
ReplyDeleteI've soldered the 220p capacitor directly to the SW2-2 pin and the other leg to the 470k side on the board using a shielded wire (shield to ground).
When I first tested it (without the above fix) it all worked fine except when I had SW2 on the off (middle) position and the drive pot over 75/80%. I was able to hear clear radio interference (people speaking on my local radio station).
Don't know if this fix is necessary when all is boxed inside the enclosure, but it seems that the 220p capacitor (or wire) is working as an antenna when not connected. Plus, running near the drive signal path this effect could be amplified. Maybe running shielded cable there too can also help.
Cheers
I've used a chinese TL074, a chinese TL072, two pre-soldered J201's from musikding, all yellow box capacitors except for the picofarad (ceramic) and the polarized ones.
DeleteThe layout was drawn by me in order to fit a 1590b enclosure (18x20), but is exactly the same circuit. Otherwise, I could say this one is verified, because mine sounds awesome (really close to the B3K) and it all works perfectly.
Hope someone can test my fix using this layout and confirm it.
Hello ! I'm sorry i'm french but i try to explain my problem. I don't know what is CLR and the two DSG on the schematic. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteAs explained above, the CLR is the current limiting resistor for the LED. It should be around 2.2k.
DeleteThe two DSG are explained in the schematic (J201). They are two JFET transistors.
What capacitor or resistor could I swap around or put a switch to accommodate for a guitar? Thanks!!
ReplyDeleteYou should try it out as it is first. If you want less bass going in you can swap the first 100nF capacitor (connected to IN) for a 56nF.
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ReplyDeleteDont do this modes. Totaly ruined my build. Reversed it back to how it was
DeleteAnyone reading dont do this mods! Pedal sounds good as is if you used vero layout above. Removing 22p from pin 6-7 of tl072 adds weird oscillations when drive knob is maxed. Using 1n instead of 2n2 in TL074 section makes sound thinner and barely unusable, especially when grunt switch is centered. And about using on-on instead of on-off-on, original pedal definetly using 3-way switches. You can see it in every demo out there, example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIFdnwVZDZc. Center position of the grunt switch is very usable if you want subtle mid-high saturation in your bass sound and this mods totaly ruined this option
ReplyDeleteCoolio. I've deleted it, never bothered to build the pedal in the end so didn't know if it worked or not
Deleteuum why is this marked unverified? I just made it and all seems to be working?!
ReplyDeleteWe usually change it when the first successful build is posted but they do slip through the net. So thanks for that and I’ll update it now
DeleteNoob question from me, as i'm just moving from PCB Kits to vero / strip boards, but where its showing the +9v, grounds LED, drive etc, do they just get soldered onto the far left of the strip on the last hole as shown on the stripboard layout?
ReplyDeleteYes, the wires will just connect to the far left or far right hole depending what side they’re on
DeleteThanks man.
DeleteOn these when it says Bass lugs 2&3 for example, on the shredmaster by marshall, Is that one wire from that trace to both lugs 2 and 3? or separate wires to that trace?
Take the wire to one of the lugs and then use a short piece of wire to connect lugs 2 and 3. You could use two wires if you wanted but one wire and a short link is the easiest and tidiest way
DeleteThanks man. I'm having some issues on the Shredmaster layout, are you experienced on that one for me to ask a few Qs
Delete?