Wednesday, 24 April 2013

Death By Audio Robot - modded

This was my take on the DBA Robot but with individual switching for the IC internal functions (Vibrato, Robot and any of the octave options on the fly) rather than the rotary switch used in the original.  I thought it would be more versatile to be able to control them all individually rather than be stuck with the choices dictated by the original scheme, and all the sounds will be there with the correct settings of the toggles.  The Gain control has also been taken external after a recommendation from albru80.

I think it's probably not really worth including both and up and down momentary switches on reflection as that only chooses the direction that you step through the octave choices.  So maybe removing one of those makes more sense.  I'd suggest reading through the datasheet and deciding yourself what to include.

Info about the original:

The Death by Audio Robot is the latest in a line of sonic mayhem inducing pedals from our boys in NYC. The Robot brings Death by Audio into the low-fi, bit-crushing business. This insane pedal is a lo-fi pitch transposer that produces sweet, 8-bit ring mod effects to your guitar. The Robot features four operational modes; Normal, Octave Up, Octave Down, and Arpeggiator. The Octave Up and Octave Down modes are pretty self explanatory. The Control knob, when fully clockwise, yields either octave up or down depending on the mode. When turned down, it bends the pitch of the octave down so you can dial in the exact tone you want. In Normal mode the Robot acts as a lo-fi fuzz pedal and the Control knob bends the pitch down from clockwise. The amount of fuzz can be further toyed with using the internal gain control. Now the fun part. The Death by Audio Robot also features an arpeggiator. The pitch will arpeggiate in a sequence and the Control knob will adjust the speed of the arpeggiation. It also makes a slight change in the pitch, allowing the arpeggiator to go higher. With all this fun, who needs anything else? Arpeggiation, whacky robotic nonsense, and 8-bit fuzz fun are all jam packed together in the Death by Audio Robot.








135 comments:

  1. I did build this one, based on the vero you posted to FSB (is this the same one or are there any differences?) I originally tried using momentary switches, and then I switched to latching switches.

    But in both cases, it was SO INCREDIBLY noisy/not musical... I decided that I needed to do it the original way with a rotary switch, but I haven't gotten to that yet. It just seemed as if EVERYTHING was on at once, and it was just chaos/noise. My wife came in to my workshop and asked, "Oh god, is it supposed to sound like that?"

    So it is verified, but as I said, when I built it, it was nothing like the Youtube clips of the DBA Robot

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The switches should scroll through the octave options in terms of Up and Down, and turn the effect on and off for Vibrato and Robot. albru80 on the forum mentioned he built it and it did work, but it wasn't as easy to use as the original with the fixed choices for the 4 positions. He has posted a layout for the original though if anyone prefers, this is purely my take on it because I'd prefer to be able to turn the functions on and off independently.

      I think it may not be worth including both and up and down momentary switch on reflection as that only chooses the direction that you scroll through the options. So maybe removing one of those makes more sense.

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    2. any chance the original veto mentioned can be linked or posted? can't find it on the forums

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    3. Hi Sean,
      The link is already in this forum.
      http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/AlexLondon9/media/render_zps48c9235b.gif.html?sort=3&o=1
      The rotary switch wiring is there too

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  2. This chip seems pretty rad. I think I'll give this one a try. If anything it's an excuse for me to stock up on axial 2u2s for FF types

    Thanks!

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  3. Just ordered the IC for this! On the down side it's coming from China so I guess I'll be waiting 3 weeks to build it :( looks like an interesting one, thanks Mark.

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    Replies
    1. Same here! The oly reasonable pricced ones I've found, are from eBay's chinese sellers.

      So two- three weeks to try it. Patience!

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    2. I also ordered 3x of them from Asia so I guess we can have a race with this one? I doubt anyone here has one of those chips laying around hah!

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    3. I reckon we're all just ordered off the same guy, I got the 3 pack too!

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    4. Oooh I've got 4 here sat in front of me ....

      You'll probably still finish it before I get chance to! :o)

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    5. England-Iceland-Spain, let's see who wins! (I bet Spain won't, spanish mail system is pure crap, Mark uses to get his orders 3 days before me)

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  4. Reading through the datasheet again and I'm not entirely sure that the vibrato isn't momentary as well so I'd suggest getting at least one spare. I always intended to play with this circuit but never got round to it, so I suppose we'll find more out about it now more people are on the case. With some (maybe all) of the switches being simple momentary, then rather than a toggle switch, maybe something like this would be a good cheap and easy to use alternative:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181126876259

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Would these be it?

      http://www.taydaelectronics.com/pb-11d02-push-button-panel-mount-spst-no-pb-11d02-th1-00.html

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    2. Yes I think those are the same

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  5. Sorry, I don't get it. Why would any of those toggle switches be momentary? Wasnt the original a latching rotary switch? If so, why not then latching for the toggles? Im confused...

    I'm gonna order some parts to build this thing...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because the original uses pins 1 to 3 of the IC which selects pitch based on a logic table of what combination of the 3 pins are grounded. So those connections have to be latching. When you use pins 15 to 18 instead, one turns vibrato on and off, one turns robot on and off, and the other two step through the pitches in sequence up or down. So each time the contacts are made it either alternates the state (vibrato/robot) or steps through the pitches (up/down) and I reckon they are all momentary and are just looking for a single pulse.

      If anyone has just ordered 3 momentary switches, then just omit either the up or down and you can still step through all the pitch changes but only in one direction.

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  6. The vibrato is indeed momentary. I just built one of these with my own vero layout, it never fails, any time I make my own layout the next week there is one up on this site!

    I used pins 1-3 on latching switches to choose the up/down, and put the vibrato pin on a momentary switch. Now that I think about it, I wish I had added a toggle to turn the robot mode off - I'd be curious to hear from anyone who builds this if it's worthwhile to add this.

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  7. found a toggle switch, 4 positions with the return.
    I think would be perfect here.

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  8. How important is that 43K resistor off pin 6? Closest I have is 47K.

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    Replies
    1. Ah, never mind. I joined a 33k with a 10k. All good over here. Looking forward to this build. I'll report back when its finished.

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    2. Okay, so this thing is not working right at all. Is the layout verified?

      The vol, gain, and control seem to be working. But all I get is noisy ring modish type sounds that are extremely bass heavy. And the only momentary switch that does anything at all is the vibrato (arpeggio) switch. But it does not sound at all like it should.

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  9. I've built my own layout using the rotary switch and it works.
    I've tried this modded version a while ago and it sounded too messy for my taste. I thought the original version had the best sounds pre-selected.
    It does sound a bit bass heavy and it's a bit temperamental with different power sources.

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    Replies
    1. How does it compare to the original? I'm still waiting for the IC to arrive.

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    2. I think we're many waiting for this ic :P Let's hope this week gets here :)

      BR

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    3. I'm still waiting for the IC to arrive. Hope it'll be soon!

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    4. IC's received. This evening (if my f*cing week on call allows me so) I'll build this board!

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  10. I've built the pedal for a friend a year ago but it sounded pretty much the same. Maybe a bit too much bass.
    My version was the rotary switch one. I think this modded version wasn't as simple to use as the original one. If you are interested this is the layout I've used:

    http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/AlexLondon9/media/render_zps48c9235b.gif.html?sort=3&o=1

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  11. Here is where I'm at so far. I've been checking this thing over and over for errors. No luck yet. You will notice I joined 2 resistors to get the correct value for one of them.

    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jtCXUiWcdDI/UYaWdW0xzJI/AAAAAAAAAdM/jKvHp7ti5Og/s512/photo1.JPG
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tOePd47XWl8/UYaWdgIV11I/AAAAAAAAAdQ/vBsVYig7n6I/s512/photo2.JPG

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  12. Anyone have any luck with this layout?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm still waiting on the IC, I'll let you know if it ever gets it's ass over here from China.

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    2. Very strange.. I received mines on past May 6th (friday) ordered on same day and same seller than you.

      Geiri seems to have not received'en yet

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    3. And I'm sorry but can't be of any help. I built the regular one with rotary switch, and internal gain trimmer instead of external pot (it has no sreally sense to install on the outside, is just a set and forget control)

      I have too ic's left, whenver i finissh the Meatball, will take a look to this modded robot.

      BR

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    4. Yeah, still haven't received mine!

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    5. Just got the ICs now!

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    6. Spain wins :P Iceland, 2nd place, England 3rd :P Have you received my 2N2646?

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    7. Are you going to build this modded version or the original one with rotary switch?

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    8. I then realised that I don't have any 3.6V zeners, goddamn it.. I can't be bothere with a rotary switch so I'm gonna follow this layout.

      I haven't received the transistor yet. It'll probably get here next week. Cheers!

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  13. Yeah, i'd love to get this layout working. I like the idea of the momentary switches. Plus, I already drilled the enclosure and have those awesome tiny momentaries all line up. :\

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  14. Just received the IC for this today (after 3 weeks!), unfortunately I've got to start a 10 hour shift soon and won't get back until about 12:30 :( Ah well I reckon I can get some done now and the rest done later, I've waited this long to build it, another few hours isn't going to kill me.

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  15. Right it looks like there may be a small problem with the layout after all. One the datasheet it shows Pins 1, 2 and 3 need to read '1, 1, 1' to use the up and down toggles but after a bit of reading it seems that '1' means not connected to ground rather than connected. I snipped the links joining ground to pin 1 and all the interconnecting links between pins 1, 2, 3 and 4. Then I used some hook up wire to connect the row of pin 4 back to ground. Everything now works pretty much as it should!

    The only thing I'm still unsure about is the robot switch, it seems to override the octave effect and when playing with it switched on there's no difference in sound from any of the notes, very strange but maybe it's not used that much in the DBA settings. Everything else sounds pretty much as it should but obviously there's a lot more settings that the original Robot.

    So with the corrections I suggested it should be verified. If it's not very clear what I mean, just let me know and I'll post a pic of my board.

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    Replies
    1. Cool, that was one of the things I wasn't sure about, and why I didn't post it until being cajoled into it! :) Cheers Rick I'll update the layout.

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    2. I don't suppose you've got any info on which settings the original uses for the presets? This things has got some freaky sounds in it by the way, freaky and disturbing.

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    3. Ah, you guys are the best. Now its working great. Totally ridiculous sounds in this box. Might be cool to add a clean blend to allow for some sort of twisted lo-fi harmonizer.

      Also, I'm getting the same thing where the octaves and robot switches seem to turn eachother off.

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    4. Yeah, I think we're going to have to live with the way the robot switch works. From the datasheet:

      "The system changes to the Robot state after the ROB
      pin is triggered, regardless of what state the system is
      in."

      Ah well the other settings sound better to me anyway. Your idea of a clean blend sounds good too, I had though of maybe wiring up a switch to cut the fuzz out too, I'm sure there are some settings that would sound good clean(ish).

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    5. Ah cool. Also, turning my amp up a bit, I noticed I'm getting a carrier signal bleed through when bypassed. Pretty audible tepending on where you have the knobs tuned. Any ideas on how to kill this?

      Would it be possible to ground out the oscillator without resetting the chip? That would be important because I noticed that when you unplug the power, and then plug it back in, the pedal goes to a default setting everytime. So, any sort of grounding when bypassed would have to not reset the chip, so you tune the pedal to your liking and keep it that way during a gig.

      I grounded out the oscillator during bypass with my Catalinbread Heliotrope build and solved my bleedthrough problem perfectly.

      So, where would the oscillator be on the Robot?

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    6. I think it's built into the chip. The datasheet does say it'll default to robot mode when it powers on so I'm not sure on how to tackle this. I've not boxed mine yet so when I do I'll let you know if I have the same problem. Let me know if you manage to sort it out.

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    7. So I love this pedal. Totally nuts. A pleasant surprise is that it makes all sorts of crazy sounds when you roll your volume knob all the way down. This thing is quite useful for my noise electronic type projects. I got rid of the "whine-while-in-bypass" by crudely grounding out one of the pins on the TL072. Did the job, however now there is a small pop and delayed activation when switching the circuit on. But that does not really bother me with this guy, as its full of crazy sounds anyway and the pop fits right in.

      I experimented with adding a "split n blend" but I ended up ditching it as I did not find it that usefull, and it got rid of all of the cool sounds when I turned by volume knob down.

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    8. Cheers for the heads up about the split and blend dude, I guess I'll leave it as is. If you're into this have you tried the Mid-Fi Random Number Generator? Highly recommended for noise!

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    9. The RNG is on my build list! However, last night, I was running the Robot into a Mid-Fi Clarinot!

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  16. Glad to her you guys got yours working. Im waiting for the chip from HK.
    My usual places dont have the diodes. Are there any suitable substitutions?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think any 3.6v Zener will do. If you're in the UK then Bitsbox do a Zener diode kit for a very reasonable price, it's come in handy a bunch of times since I bought one. The only value it doesn't have is 8.6v so I bought 10 of those separately as they're used in the Crowther Hot Cake and I quite like that circuit.

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    2. thanks mate.
      I was reading your edits to the initial vero and had a question regarding that connection you made with hookup wire from pin 4 to ground. I can see mark has updated the layout, so is that wire still needed. I cant see pin 4 goes to ground on there (or maybe Im reading it wrong). I can see it eventually gets to ground via the jumpers, a 33u cap and a 43r resistor. Is that the same thing?

      Delete
    3. Yeah, there's now a jumper direct from pin 4 to a ground row so there'd be no need for the link I made with hook up wire.

      Delete
  17. Hi Mark,
    Sorry, never meant to say it was verified.
    I've built your original version long ago and I had no clue how it was supposed to sound.
    It sounded weird to me and I've ended up building the rotary switch version.
    Anyway, it was a dead topic on the FSB website.
    At least people here have been able to fix it.

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  18. I've got a question about this circuit. I'm guessing this is not possible, but is there a way to add LED indicators to this thing?

    Like an on/off indicator for the vibrato mode?

    And indicators for which step you are on in the octave choices? Perhaps a series of leds one for each stage, and the current stage you were on would cause the proper LED to light up?

    This would be INCREDIBLE helpful for live situations.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yikes, so many typos. Thats what I get for typing on my phone!

      Delete
  19. verified (again!)

    reminds me of my old commodore 64

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  20. If I wanted to use the original switch version how would I go about doing that? What kind of switch would I need and how would I wire it? I'm very new to this.

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  21. Hey people.
    Just want to clarify if this is the latest working layout?
    If I've decided to go for the original switch...4 way rotary with 'common' attached to the return...correct?

    Cheers all!

    ReplyDelete
  22. This is not the original rotary switch version.
    If you are interested I made a layout for that a while ago:

    http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/AlexLondon9/media/render_zps48c9235b.gif.html?sort=3&o=1

    The Rotary swich wiring is there too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm a little confused by this layout. Does SW0 go to lug 1 and 4, and so on (SW1 to 9, 10, 12, and SW2 to 7 and 8), or would it just be to one lug of each SW#?

      Delete
  23. Hey man, nice work. I have a couple of questions.
    The pin-numbers on your 4P3T (or is it 3P4T...? Always get poles/throws mixed up) diagram...how do they relate to the diagram?
    Is it, for example, pin 3 in that sector going clockwise..?
    Then...where is the vibrato wire?
    Finally....where do u buy your rotary switches? Farnell are asking stuuupid prices.
    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi,
      Sorry but I'm not sure I understand the question.
      If you look at the rotary switch diagram and the effect layout on the same page it should be pretty straight forward.
      Pin1 is A, Pin2 is C and Pin3 is B.
      There's no Vibrato in the original pedal.
      It has Fuzz, Octave Down, Octave Up and Robot.
      I've bought the switches on ebay:

      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-3-Pole-4-Position-PANEL-Wiring-ROTARY-SWITCH-3P4T-/120731553065?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1c294d29

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    2. I get that SW0 leaves row 'h' on the vero connecting the the top sector of the switch (in which you have written SW0 PIN1).
      Now in this example I think you can assume SW0 coming out of the vero, attaches to the pin labelled '1' on the switch drawing...?

      Now comes the confused part for me. SW1 comes out of row 'i' on the vero to the bottom right sector of the switch (in which you have written SW1 PIN2).
      What confuses me is there is no 'pin2' in this sector....only 9-12....
      Pin 2+3 on your switch diagram go to ground.
      So what pin does SW1 and SW2 go to on your switch-diagram?

      I might be being total brain freeze here.
      Thanks!

      Delete
    3. Ok, I think I've understood now.
      I didn't draw the switch diagram.
      I took it from FSB Forum and it might be a bit confusing.
      You don't have to consider the 3 central pins numbering.
      You have to connect row H to central pin A(sw0) of your switch.
      Row I to central pin C(sw1).
      Row J to central pin B(sw2).
      That's all.
      Those external go to the ground like in the drawing.
      Is it clearer now?

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    4. Yeah man! Crystal. Gotcha.
      Sorry late reply. Ended up going for the momentary switches in the end.....I know. Sorry. But now I know if I like it, I'll build it again your style.
      Cheers!

      Delete
  24. Hey IvIark any chance you'd be interested in doing this pedal with an ht8950a?:) Just cause thats what i have on hand from an old vocodor kit i built many moons ago. I've actualy run my guitar into it instead of the mic & sometimes it works. Sometimes not. Think it was a velco(?) kit. I'm actually curious if this pedal is a take off of that, but not enough to go through a reverse schematic.

    ReplyDelete
  25. I just finished building Alex's version and it works just like the original with the exception of having an added gain pot. I reversed the leads on the gain pot since it worked backward,s and found that a 1M audio worked better for me than a 1M linear. i'm not sure if I really like this pedal but I want to thank Alex for posting it anyway ;-).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Alex version is the one i built. As I didn't want an extra gain pot, replaced it with a fixed 1 mb resistor, and loved the result.

      Mark's version is extremely more versatile, but for this effect I wanted the original one. This is a really crazy pedal (the arpegio position is just incredible), so, adding more options seems too much for me.

      This effect is loved or hated, but nobody shows indiference when listens to the box. By the way, I think is the only DBA effect that I cloned and sounds verbatim to the original.

      BR

      Delete
  26. BTW, here's my slightly modded vero layout using Alex's as a guide, including the wiring of the 4P3T rotary switch. I removed the 2k2 Led resistor so I could mount the two IC's inline.:

    http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com/Effects/Fuzz-ODs/DBA/01-DBA_ROBOT_VERO.png

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Any chance of seeing a gut shot, John?

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    2. i'm sorry. I didn't care for the sound of it so I never boxed it up.

      Delete
  27. Hi John,
    Thanks for checking it.
    I've used these schematics:
    http://www.freestompboxes.org/download/file.php?id=16560&mode=view
    The gain wiring in there is wrong then?
    The 27K res from pin1 seems to go to lead 2
    Never been very good with pots in schematics

    ReplyDelete
  28. If you look at this picture it looks like Gain 3 (or 1) goes to pin2 and Gain 2 goes to pin1 (Through 27K Res) of the IC.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/mhammer/robot5.jpg
    Same as the schematics
    http://www.freestompboxes.org/download/file.php?id=16560&mode=view

    Am I correct?

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  29. i build this one from alex layout

    http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/AlexLondon9/media/render_zps48c9235b.gif.html?sort=3&o=1

    now i have some questions, if the -9V goes in the vero, do i have to wire it(the -9V ) up to, on the jack(input) ?
    is the ground for my jacks(in and out-put) the same , as the switches ground ?
    and where goes 2 from control poti ?
    i really don´t how to wiring up this one
    thanks a lot

    ReplyDelete
  30. Hi,
    Jacks and footswitch grounds come from -9V(usual ground).
    The rotary switch ground comes from the board (third from bottom, left side).
    I'm not sure I understand the question about the Control pot.
    Lugs 2 & 3 are connected on the right side of the board.
    Lug 1 doesn't need to be connected.
    Is that what you were asking?

    ReplyDelete
  31. thx for information, i had a moment of revelation - a common understanding of stompbox wiring
    thanks a lot !

    ReplyDelete
  32. is this verified from John Kallas's layout? I have some extra rotaries that id rather use than a bunch of toggles!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I built one from my posted layout and it sounds and works like the clips I've seen posted.

      Delete
    2. Im having some weird issues with my build from johns layout. I used a rotary switch I had that has 3 middle lugs and everything sounds good (except maybe a little more noise than the pro guitarshop video)... But i'm not getting straight fuzz on the first mode (unless i have the control turned all the way clockwise). and on each of the octave modes I'm getting a bit of arpeggiating and ring mod that requires me to play in the key of the pitch of the control knob. however, its still not like the arpeggiating that is found in the arpeggio mode.

      i'm wondering if i have the wrong switch- rotaties honestly confuse the crap out of me

      Delete
  33. Do you take requests?? I'd really like to build an octave down pedal à la Steve Hackett (Genesis). What about the Colorsound Octivider, which he used? I'd really appreciate it if you did a board for it!!! I'm in a Genesis tribute band and I want to get the right tone. Thanks so much for considering it!

    Here's the schematic:
    http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=3417&g2_serialNumber=2


    A guy did do a board for it but the jacks are different than what I'm used to and I asked him but he said it's not verified. But if you can't do the board, can you tell me if this source is reliable? Thanks!

    http://www.turretboard.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/ColorsoundOctivider.pdf

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'll add it to the list although I can't promise when I will get a chance to do it. The layout you link has been done by a friend of mine Pawel, and he is very good so I would trust anything he did even if it wasn't verified. If it doesn't work first time there is plenty of people around who will help you debug.

      Forget the black and grey wires he shows at the connectors, the red wire is the input and orange wire the output. Just make sure that everything that needs to be grounded is, and that you're using appropriate switched wiring for your battery connector if you're using one and I'm sure you'll be fine.

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    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. Thanks for answering!!
      I could just use regular jacks (stereo and mono respectively) and disregard the right side of both jacks, correct?

      Delete
  34. I have tried building this pedal but am having some problems. I cannot get around this continuous noise when a jack is plugged into the input, no guitar signal goes through. I can hear it trying to do what it "does" (robot, arpeggio, etc.) yet the sound is made all by itself, even without a guitar being connected to the input jack. Any obvious issues I should check for??? I have verified the placement of components many times and there doesn't appear to be any shorts or bad soldering joints.

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  35. I saw some comments about this circuit having too much bass- I just finished my 2nd one (from John Kallas layout with rotary wiring) and it has too much bass, whereas my first one didnt! maybe I put a 47pf in place of the 470pf in the first one? Any ideas on how to lower bass in this circuit? smaller input cap maybe?

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  36. Hey, I've completed a build of the Robot (johnk's layout). It works as expected (whatever that means in this case...).
    But after some time it's been powered it just stops... It needs to pe unpowered for a while to start working again. I thought it was the IC, since I could probe signal till the input, but after I changed it (same batch), it's still the same... I'd be happy to post voltages but I must admit I'm a bit lost with the power section... Where is ground or 0V or whatever you would call it.??? Do I measure regarding the "return" row?

    Any help would be Much appreciated here.

    Also if you have any idea of what component I should swap (Zeners, maybe?)...

    Thanks in advance

    ReplyDelete
  37. I've also completed one of yours and my advice would be NOT to ground Batt- I've had 0 problems when building it that way, while it would always stop working after a while wired the other way. here's a pic of the weirdo:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/118474006@N06/12718861003/

    ReplyDelete
  38. Hi,
    I would like to build this Robot with rotary switch, so maybe with the John Kallas layout. But I don't understand why there is only 3 position for the rotary switch and not 4 like the original or the Iviark layout (Robot, Up, down, Arpeggio). And where is the wire of "Control 1" ?
    Thanks for your help.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Because the original one doesn't give you a free hand to switch the 4 options independently and so each of the 3 positions just makes the mix of contacts required in the original. That was why I did the first layout as I did, so you had maximum versatility and more options available than you would get from the original.

      Delete
    2. Thanks, so if I use your layout, I maybe can use a DP4T instead of 4 SPST momentary. Or maybe 4 SPST but not momentary. Because with momentary SPST I have to hold on switch ?
      I never used this type of rotary or DP4T switch.

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    3. Something like that :
      http://www.wellgainelectronics.com/oemslideswitchdp4t3a125vac.aspx

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    4. No you can't do it, the way I did it using pins 15 to 18 needs momentary switches to pulse and you can't do it with a rotary switch. If you want to use a rotary switch you'll have to do it as per the original using pins 1 to 3 on the IC

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    5. And with momentary switch you have to hold switch or just one press toggle it ?

      Sorry I would like to say SP4T and not DP4T like this : http://www.newark.com/grayhill/05001-04n/switch-rotary-sp4t-1a-220v/dp/24F227

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    6. You toggle and release and with it being a momentary switch when you release it breaks the contact and returns to the default position. Think about it, how could you step through the voice modes using the up and down pins if you used a latching rotary switch. For the Vibrato and Robot switches, it cycles through on and off every time you make the switch. John's layout uses a 4P3T rotary and 3 of the poles are being used, so you'd need as an absolute minimum a 3P3T rotary.

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    7. Thanks for your explanations. I understand, now, how your layout works. I want to build the more close of original version, so I will try with John's Layout with rotary. So if I understand :
      SW0 = octave down
      SW1 = octave up
      SW2 = Arpeggiator
      and there is a 4th "bypassed" position for the normal mode "standard fuzz" ?

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  39. hi Mark, so if i´m using footswitches dpdt for additional led´s, instead of the momentary it would work too ? I´m thinking because it would´t be a trigger like it meant in your layout

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    1. No it won't work. The states are changed by pulsing the momentary switch so there is nothing latching that you could use to illuminate an LED. LED illumination is a little more difficult to implement when you are using the IC in its more versatile mode like the way I have shown it here which allows you to cycle through modes.

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  40. ok,? but you said:"You toggle and release and with it being a momentary switch when you release it breaks the contact and returns to the default position", so it would not make a difference when i´m using four SPST?, every time i´m pushing it, it toggle, and every time i pushing it again it release? and with DPDT i could solder a small led circuit on everyone. it would be the perfect box for live situations

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    1. It isn't as simple as that unfortunately. The effects turn on (or cycles the modes dependiong which switch it is) when the contact is first made, the release is irrelevant. So you wouldn't have to click it once for on once for off. You'd have to click it once for on, 3 times for off. With a latching switch it would work like this:

      First time makes the contacts which turns the effect on (or cycles through modes depending which switch it is)

      Second time breaks the contact which has no effect at all, it's just like the automatic release of the momentary switch which is suggested you use.

      Third time makes the contact again which will then turn the effect off (or cycle into the next mode depending which switch it is)

      Fourth time breaks the contact which has no effect at all, it's just like the automatic release of the momentary switch again.

      So although you COULD do it. You probably wouldn't want to with that sort of required switching sequence.

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  41. thank you Mark for this small tutorial and your knowledge! Now I understand.

    Then I´ve to look for big momentary switches, sometimes the small ones are uncomfortable with "big" shoes….

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  42. Hello, I built this one and I guess I have a problem : I have some crazy sound (robot...) when the volume pot of the guitar is turned down
    Does any one have an answer?

    Thanks

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  43. Could somebody who already built this pedal successfully please post the pin voltages of both ICs? First I built the effect using John K.'s layout but apart from the bypassed signal it didn't work at all. I later desoldered everything and built Alex' version using the same parts on a second vero. But again - no effect.

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    1. Nevermind, I found a tiny little solder bridge... Now it works perfectly! What a bastard pedal this is. A nice Uglyface companion :).

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    2. Hello guys, I have problems setting up the rotary switch in Alex'/John K.'s version. Is it correct to use a 4P3T as stated in the layouts? Because it looks more like a 3P4T (3 poles) to me. Assuming the 3P4T is the correct version I soldered everything according to the layout. Now when I set the rotary switch to 3 ways (metal lug in second hole) I have three nicely sounding robotic effects but no arpeggiation mode. When I set the switch to 4 ways (3rd lug) I have a fantastic arpeggiation sound but the other three positions are useless and sound like sh**. And I cannot hear my guitar playing at all whit this setup. So my question is: Did I just choose the wrong rotary switch type or did I set it up in the wrong way? If the 4P3T is correct: How do I wire up the 4th inner lug of the switch? I hope you can help me!

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    3. I forgot to mention that my rotary switch is a '3~12 position' switch from Musikding (Maker: Lorlin UK). By putting a little metal lug into one of ten holes you can make it a 3, 4, 5, ...12 position switch.

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    4. Suddenly it works. I have no idea why. ;)

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  44. Needing some help here. I'm building Johns rotary switch versio as I await my ic's and am a bit confused.
    Should the wire labeled Ground serve only the three switch connections(0,1,2) ?
    if so do all other components like jacks and switch ground to the 9v negative?
    I read comments above but am still unsure with this.
    Thanks in advance for any help

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    1. i just took a look at it, and if i'm reading it right, yes on the switch each of those connections goes to ground.

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    2. Just finished the the original version and it works great. The modded version should be done tomorrow

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  45. Hi,
    I bought a 4P3T, as was written on the layout, but there are 4 connectors in center, and not 3 like the 3P4T on layout.
    So there are :
    A : 1-2-3
    B : 4-5-6
    C ; 7-8-9
    D : 10-11-12
    How to wire it ?
    This's a 4P3T or 3P4T it takes?

    Thanks for your help.

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  46. Hoping I can say this correctly, you need a 3pole 4 position switch.
    It should be 3 center posts and 12 outer posts
    This would give you the 4 selectable modes. The wording on the layout threw me as well.
    I built it and love it.
    I also tried the momentary switch modded version but had no luck. I prob could go back and track down my mistake but I'm happy with the standard set up so I will prob just stick with it.

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    1. Thanks, so it's not a 4P3T but a 3P4T.

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  47. I forgot to mention that I plan to add a fine tuning pot in line with the control pot to help dial it in mor precisely. Maybe 20k? I will have to try a few and will post my results.

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  49. It's alive,alive ! ;)
    Disregard the previous message. I realized my mistake when I read the message of Synsound and John. I connected the ground of the rotary to the battery -. So I just cut the wire, and it's work very well. Thanks to John and Mark.
    Here a picture of my build :

    http://zupimages.net/up/14/51/8593.jpg

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  50. for those of you wanting to use the original layout with rotary switch youll want a 3P4T rotary (3 Pole 4 throw). anywhere you order a 4P3T switch is not going to give you the correct switch. Order a 3P4T switch from tayda or mammoth and youll be good. Also the "ground" on john k's layout only gets connected to the rotary switch grounds. youll want to connect your 1/4" jack and regular grounds to the "-9v" connection

    Now what I cannot figure it out is why my build sounds so muffled and bassy compared to the original

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  51. This seems a bit more muffled and containing less treble than the original. i've tried messing with input caps and 470pf cap, with no real luck- maybe i didnt go the right way. Anyone have any ideas?

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  52. Hey Guys,

    Just built it but it has an extremely low volume, any ideas?

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  56. ok guys, I just finished this build and its not working properly. IDK whats going on. I went over the soldered points with a magnifying glass looking for bridges and nothing. Only thing I can think of is the 3p4t. I hooked all the "Ground" wires from the 3p4t together and have 1 ground coming off the switch. Anyone think thats the issue? I get bypass and fuzz but the control does nothing and the gain pot is weird as well. Any help would be appreciated, maybe some gut shots of a few others would help me out.

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  57. I got back into mine a few days ago and added a daughter board to bring the tone out of the mud. I used the BMP Tonstack with LPB after the Robot and it helped a lot. I made the tone control an internal trimmer as well. It's prob not the best approach but it made this bass heavy build a ton more usable.

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