Info about the original:
The Lovepedal Les Lius features a three way toggle switch that allows you to change tones from 5E3 Woody (Tweed Fender Deluxe), High Power Twin (50′s Fender Twin) and Master Volume Tchula (combination of both the 5E3 Woody and the High Power Twin). The amount of VOLUME is controlled by the first knob. The second knob is a second gain stage which emulates what happens when you crank one of these vintage low wattage amplifiers.
You can tag this one. I used a 2N5457 as the unknown JFET and BAT41's for the 46's. My switches are a little dodgy (too much heat put to them) and I used a DPDT on/off/on. The drive (gain) doesn't seem to do much until the last 10% and it never really gets un-distorted. I need to check that tomorrow when I can open it up. Darn kids are asleep at 1 AM, so I can't properly test! But I love the sound of this pedal. Thanks for posting it
ReplyDeleteExcellent, thanks for verifying mate!
DeleteJust built this one myself using the same 2n5457 and BAT41s. I get the same thing with the gain. Sounds absolutely amazing though! I'm blown away.
DeleteJust finished mine and had a couple of questions. The first thing was the gain knob question which seems to be answered here already. Not much until the last 10% for me too. Also pertaining to gain, my gain knob doesn't do anything unless switch 1 is engaged ( I guess that is the boost switch of sorts ) - is that by design?
DeleteLast thing is, I don't get unity with the volume until it is about 75% up. Looks like the volume knob is up a little past that in the demo. You guys get that too?
All switches and knobs seem to be working - just wondering about the volume thing and whether the gain is supposed to do anything if the boost isn't engaged. Good sound though - I like it.
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DeleteRead through the Les Lius thread at FSB and found this:
Delete"... I recently bought a Les Lius. It sounds great, pretty much spot-on tone wise, but I don't understand why there's no gain control for the basic sound, just on the 'stack' channel."
That seems to indicate that the gain only working in the boost ( stacked ) mode is correct. Now I just need to figure out the volume thing...
Hi, I just built this, and have some issues similar to the above.
DeleteBasically, the boost does nothing until I turn the gain knob up 100%. Strangely, the different modes via the toggle switch do nothing too, unless the gain is up 100%.
Just wondering, for many drive pedals I always see drive 2 and 3 linked together, but for this it's drive 1 and 2. Is that the reason why my pedal is behaving this way?
Interesting to compare this one with the ROG Azabache or another Fender emulation pedal.
ReplyDeleteThanks, a very interesting one. On my list.
Doron
Oh you can bet that the ROG Azabache sounds MUCH better. I've made one and it sounds badass!
DeleteThanks for the Vero Mark!
ReplyDeleteThe layout still need an update for the unknown Q2 ;)
ReplyDeleteNot yet it doesn't. We know the 2N5457 works but we don't know it works best. I'll feel more comfortable doing it when someone has tried a few types and gives an opinion of the differences.
DeleteThat could be fantastico, thank you :)
DeleteWOW Another Very Nice LovePedal. Tried also with J201 but decided to stick with the 2N5457. Thanks again Mark.
ReplyDeleteI played this pedal today loud with a Tweed Deluxe Head Clone & Stack and although a 159th Electra I am very impressed. Got the Marshall & Bassman to test next. Love the tone and how it sustains & performs when strings are bent etc.
DeleteInteresting. This pedal really enhances the tone of a Fender Tweed Deluxe & a Fender Bassman but played with an 18 Watt Marshall does absolutely nothing for it. If I first tested it with the Marshall I would think it a piece of crap. Amazing how different pedals perform differently with different Amps (ie American & English) . Maybe all those pedals I have made that other people think Great and I think Crap are actually Good on other Rigs. LOL . Such is Pedal Building.
DeleteThat's why other peoples opinions and reviews on pedals is pretty meaningless unless the reviewer just so happens to be using the same guitar and amp as you. I've bought and built a few pedals that have had glowing reviews and just left me thinking wtf?!
DeleteI just built this & also used the 2n5457 but used the Bat 46's & 1n914's, i tested it through the normal channel of my modded AC30C2 fitted with one Greenback + one Vintage 30 with my partsocaster & Barenuckle Rory Gallagher 'Irish Tour' pickup set. This thing sounds just like the Proguitarshop video above! This is the sound I have wanted for my Strat since I realised I needed a Strat but was too tight to fork out 2 arms & a leg for Fender Amps! I will cherish this pedal 'till I die happy, Thanks very much for the schem.
Delete(Amps sound best just before they Blow Up) :)
Addition to the above comment: The Gain control does work without the boost 'ON' but to a lesser degree, works much more on boost!
DeleteIs there anything available on Mammoth that could be used as a BAT46 alternative?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteJohn
DeleteGot mine at Mouser. http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=bat+46
Thanks! I was hoping to get everything from Mammoth, but I'll have a look over at Mouser.
DeleteYeah, that sucks when you have everything except a component or two that you have to pay more shipping for from another supplier. I've got a few extra. If you're in the US, I can just drop you 3 in the mail if that is all you are missing for the build. Let me know.
DeleteThat would be AMAZING! That's all I need. I am in the US. Where can I reach you?
Deleteshoot me an email at hilandfalls(at)gmail(d0t)c0m.
DeleteEmail sent!
DeleteGot it. Will drop those in the mail tomorrow.
DeleteInteresting . Did you bias the j201 you tried ? Wamplers fender type pedals (tweed and black ) use j201's .was just wondering .
ReplyDeleteA little confused. Checked the thread on freestompboxes.org , it appears the voltage regulator and q2 are only used for the true bypass switching . There are several other circuits for use with a normal 3pdt switch which only use q1 . Any help would be greatly appreciated
ReplyDeleteWhereabouts exactly? Poked around for a minute and couldn't find it?
DeleteThis is the schematic it's based on. The regulator isn't part of the bypass switching, the switch shown is Sw1 on the layout which is for the different modes.
DeleteThe layouts and schemes that omit it have basically missed the thing that makes this more different from the other Lovepedal Electras.
Mark
DeleteJust curious. Why a regulator here? The only place I can remember seeing the 78L05s are on the chorus and delay pedals that I have built. Can't remember seeing a voltage regulator on any other dirt pedals. Why does the voltage need regulating on this?
If I were to guess I'd say to make the circuit seem more complicated to anyone opening the box. It seems overkill to me for something so rudimentary. If you want to put a voltage (and it doesn't need to be 5V) on the gate, then there are much easier ways to do it. It's not like with a PT2399 where keeping the voltage as close to 5V as possible is important. Basically a Boo-tweakers effect.
DeleteHaha - more partz = more mojoz. Gotta get some more carbon comps too....
DeleteThanks Mark
Thanks guys for clearing things up . It looks like the FET is only used for the boost ? So really shouldn't make much difference what FET is used . Will be interesting to build a version with and without it and compare . Thanks again for a fantastic site and all the hard work that goes into these vero designs .
DeleteSorry mate,should have posted the link , this is the main thread .
ReplyDeleteFreestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6665&start=20
Some interesting gut shots further back too !
What do you think ?
So the actual Les Lius has a footswitch for the boost side. Which switch is this in the layout? SW2?
ReplyDeleteThe boost or "stacked" switch is switch one - on or off. SW2 switches between the 3 modes. I really like the middle position ( I think it's supposed to be the twin ). Nice growl.
ReplyDeleteThanks tinkercreak.
ReplyDeleteWould I be able to use a SPDT footswitch for SW1? I'm running into another Mammoth doesn't carry it issue.
I love their site and service, but I'm not crazy about their inventory. I think my next order will go to Tayda.
AS long as it's latching, I don't see why not.
DeleteTayda however only carries momentary which are only closed while you stand on them?
I would think if you wanted to use a footswitch for boost, a DPDT would be a good choice so you could wire an LED to it so you'd have a
Deletestatus light for the boost "channel". Just a thought.
Could you give me an idea of how to wire it up like that?
DeleteJust built this , Housed with an Analogman sunface bc 108
ReplyDeletehad to sub D5 for 1n914 as only had 2 bat46s
but switch 2 is same in middle & 1 side
would a red led be better
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5322/8994905371_5883628e1c_z.jpg
Nice one, thanks for the pic
DeleteWT
ReplyDeleteOn mine, the volume drops a good amount on one side of the mid position. I think maybe that just makes it seem like there is not as much of a difference between the other two settings. But, on mine, the middle position sounds just a tad thicker than the other ( non vol drop ) side. If you don't hear any difference at all, then you might just have a cold solder joint at the switch or the board - There is definitely a slight difference as built according to the posted layout. I believe the volume drop side is supposed to be the "Deluxe" sound, middle is supposed to be "Twin", and the other side is Tchula.
Do you have to turn your volume up past 12 o'clock to get unity volume? I have to turn mine up to around 2 o'clock to get unity. Just wondering if that is the way it is or if I need to rebuild it...
Thanks
Unity is about 10 o'clock
Deletea noticeable jump between deluxe & twin but cant hear any difference between twin & tchula
Might socket D5 & try a few different diodes
I see on madbeans lavache he recommends doing this but also uses a 1n4001 for it
WT
DeleteThanks for the reply. I'll throw another one together then. I'll have to try some different diodes in D5 too....
just built this, sounds great but with a slighty hotter p90 there's an incredible amount of sag. almost sounds like the riff is being run backwards through a tape machine. anyone else experience this with their build?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHI,
ReplyDeleteI have a Les Lius clone that somebody built for me. It appears to be built following this exact circuit.
Is it possible to convert the function of the 2nd pot to act as an output level control? It is a 1K pot, so I don't know if it would need to be a different value or not.
I'm not an electronics expert, but a tinkerer for fun, so any expert advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
I really love this pedal but would like to fatten up the tone a little
ReplyDeleteIn presume raising the 47 & 100n caps will do it ?
Anything else to change ?
BTW is there something up with the forum ?
Every time i go on it my firefox crashes, never happens apart from that
Hi guys, i've built les lius yesterday and it's an awesome pedal, sounds very nice, but i have a problem with a lot of hiss when pedal is engaged, and it increases with turning the volume up no matter on what settings i'm at, or boost on or off...
ReplyDeleteI used 2n5457 and 2n5088, bat 46, and two 3pdt switches, one for on/off, one for boost... i've tryed changing my transistors, changed bat 46 for bat 41, checked all my grounds, all of my connections and i can't find any problems with build... pedal is working, but it's very annoying, do you know what could it be? can it be the volume pot maybe? i really don't know what could it be...
Hi everyone. My first post here! I've built 10 pedals from tagboardeffects, all sucessfull builds. Finished the 11th yesterday, the les lius, but have one strange problem. Everything works fine with battery (the pedal is great!!), but cannot put it to work with power supply. I've checked and double checked the wiring, and the power supply is ok... so i'm guessing a faulty DC power jack. But just to be sure, this guy runs with 9v negative center, right? How many mA does it draw? Any ideas besides the DC power jack? Thanks. Great great website here.
ReplyDeleteYes negative centre and it will draw next to nothing, maybe 10mA tops. It's easy enough to check though, just set your multimeter for DC voltage and measure between the DC jack centre pin and ground. If that's ok then you must have a bad joint on the connecting wire to the board.
DeleteId like to put a tone pot on this
ReplyDeleteHow would i do it ? thanks
http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.fi/2013/08/bmp-tonestack-w-lpb1.html
Delete+m
Thanks Miro !
DeleteHi does anyone know how to increase the gain for the boost? It's an excellent pedal, thanks for the layout!
ReplyDeleteYou can't really. There's only so much you can get out of a single transistor before it turns into a fizzy mess. If you want more gain you really want to consider making two and cascading one into the next. 2 stages will give you much more.
Deletehi, I built this pedal today, this is what I needed :)
ReplyDeleteI used a JFET 2SK170, sounds lovely. In my copy drive pot works in both modes.
Today at 8 AM my son was born, it will be a unique pedal for me :)
Thanks Ivlark
Aah that's excellent, congratulations on the birth of your son!
DeleteThanks, I have two daughters, this pedal for my Stratocaster is like a son that I needed :)
DeleteWhile everything sounds great, I'm having an odd problem: I can't turn off the boost. I tested SW1 and it's definitely engaging and disengaging. But whichever position it's in, the tone is the same - boosted - and the Gain knob works. I can't figure it out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
ReplyDeleteUpdate: I reflowed every solder point, checked all values, cleaned all the vero channels, checked everything against the layout. I removed the wires from SW1 completely, and the boost is still on. So obviously it's not the switch. I've spend hours on this and can't find anything wrong. What would be the point on this layout where the SW1 might get bypassed?
DeletePreferences may vary, but I just finished this to compare with Brian's Lavache that I built a while back. And Brian's wins hands down. Less parts, and the lack of gain on the LesLuis is killing me! I thought I was going mad until I realized the only gain I got was with the boost engaged.
ReplyDeleteTo each his own, but if you want a complete stranger's opinion, go with Madbean's version!
http://zapodaj.net/2bf378d39129d.jpg.html
ReplyDeleteHi, this is my version of the Les Lius. My modification is a separate gain pot for each channel. Great pedal
Nice job, thanks for the pic
DeleteThis was my first build that was successful not using a kit from GGG. I tried building a LL using a PCB from Madbean (while discontinued one of his forum members still makes them) and parts from Pedal Parts Plus. While that version never worked I was able to order parts from Small Bear and build your version. I am running it through a Vox Night Train and a Gibson Les Paul Pro (P-90s). Great tone options in the three-way switch (I like middle). I have the same issue with the boost not really doing anything unless the gain is all the way up but I am not overly concerned about it. Thanks for this amazing site!
ReplyDeletei am about to build this pedal and i just made this transparent picture to use.
ReplyDeletejust print it out on transparent waterslide paper and coat it, place it on your 1590BB box and coat :) i also made it easier to cut with sizzor, and a little sharper picture so it shows better after coating.
http://s8.postimg.org/hhmp65d2d/les_lius_transparant_1590bb.png
cheers
built it and wooow, what a sound! :o
ReplyDeletedidn't sound much with my strat but boy that LP sing lovely with this pedall.
i built it with just one transistor, 2N3565 (hfe 450).
i had several in range from hfe 200-450 but those high gainers is the shit in this circuit :)
old version, not able to adjust gain unless boost is kicked in, but i like it that way.
lovely breakup on my tube amp and many different ways to dial in classic Fender sounds :)
thx
some pictures from my sweet sounding build :)
ReplyDeletei didn't have any more 3pdt left, had to use a bigger one until new arrives :)
http://s28.postimg.org/azcs6f2zh/IMG_0570.jpg
http://s28.postimg.org/jgcahc7od/IMG_0577.jpg
[url=http://postimg.org/image/so4iy1eqh/][img]http://s28.postimg.org/so4iy1eqh/IMG_0577.jpg[/img][/url]
now with some paint and a sticker :)
Deletenice pedal for humbuckers
http://s15.postimg.org/gzuo6ow7v/IMG_0645.jpg
I can't get BAT46's where I buy my stuff so I wonder what you guys recommend instead?
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about these but I'm not sure. I don't want the clipping to start sooner than the BAT46 and for instance I believe the BAT41 does.
• BAT41
• 1N4001
• 1N4148
• 1N34
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BAT46-DO-35-Diode-Schottky-Rectifier-Diode-10PCS-A06-/252037761820?hash=item3aae9f0b1c:g:eHsAAOxyyF5RPCoP
ReplyDeleteI've just finished 2 of these. 1 'Normal' and 1 'High Gain'
ReplyDeleteNormal:
Q1: 2n5088 (or BC108C hfe 500-550 for more round sound)
Q2: JFET 2n5457
And diodes 2x1n914 and 3x BAT 46
For a high gain model:
Q1: 2n5089
Q2: JFET 2n5458 (this gives a lot more gain, and shapes the sounds heavily. Less high-end and much more bass)
And diodes 2x 1n914 and 3x BAT41
A little something, you might want to try.
SW1 basically engages the Gain knob and the JFET.
If you want the gain knob and boost on, all the time, just link Sw1A and Sw1b and omit the Sw1 switch.
This is just a thought for the record on this old thread but it may help with other projects, who knows.
ReplyDeleteAs may have been pointed out earlier, this is a single stage circuit not a two stage as it is sometimes described. And the JFET is only acting as a switch for the BJT stage, it plays no part in distortion/tone shaping functions. It is not a separate second gain stage as it is often described, it simply allows the single BJT stage to adopt a higher gain configuration by lowering the value of its emitter resistor.
It can see only fixed Vgs voltages of 0V and +5V which is odd. Can anyone confirm this is actually a N-Type JFET and not a P-Type in the original circuit? A N-Type should see -5V to switch it off. Modelling the circuit in Spice shows it works with a P-Type but is all over the place with a N-Type. (But then I can always be missing something obvious...) N-Type JFET curves in the datasheet show -ve values but always stop at 0V Vgs going positive! Check this out to see what I mean: https://www.quora.com/What-would-happen-if-a-positive-VGS-voltage-across-gate-and-source-is-applied-to-a-JFET
Assuming I am right about that, a 2N5457 is certainly not going to work properly. From its datasheet the 2N5457 has a typical on current of about 3mA (1-5mA) with 0V Vgs (low resistance state), and a Gate/Source cut off voltage of -0.5V to -6.0V (high resistance state). Note the "-" sign in there. We can never achieve a -ve Vgs with the circuit as shown, 0V or +5V, hence my suggestion of a P-Type.
When it is hard on with a low Rds resistance it places the 1k pot and 1k resistor in parallel with the 330R emitter resistor of the BJT for AC signals, reducing its value to AC and increasing the gain of the single stage.
When it is hard off it presents a high resistance which does not reduce the emitter resistor value leading to lower gain in the gain stage. It won't matter much what you use there as long as it is hard off with Vgs=5V and hard on with Vgs=0V. I had better make that clear, if it is working as it should the type you use will make no difference to the character of the distortion or the tone in any way other than to alter the level of distortion as the minimum resistance it is able offer varies between JFETs. That may be why some people have problems with the gain being all at one end of the control.
This intrigued me enough to do some more Spice modelling, (it's a very slow day here). With no diodes in circuit, i.e. keeping the gain circuit as it is and running it clean to be able to measure and compare the output voltages accurately, I found the following:
ReplyDeleteI'm using an input voltage of 10mV pk-pk for ease of calculation and switching the JFET Vgs between 0V and +5V as in the Les Lius circuit. I also have all clipping diodes disconnected so the stage is simply the BJT, it's 3 resistors and input and output capacitors, and the JFET components. This then means an easy and accurate comparison of the effects of the JFET on overall gain without any clipping clouding the issue and making measurements complicated. I am setting the value of the pot to 0R on 0V (maxed out for gain), and at 500R on +5V (minimum gain) to see what the difference between absolute max and min is.
With a N-Type 2N5457 in circuit the output from the BJT Collector showed pk-pk voltages of 358mV (0V) and 275mV (+5V), not a really significant difference between low and high gain. Interestingly without the 500R in there at all the voltages were 358mV and 538mV, that's the wrong way around as 0V should give a lower resistance and therefore higher gain. Also the voltage increased as the +5V was increased to 10V and 15V. That N-Type JFET action on Vgs of +ve voltages really does not look correct.
Using a P-Type model for a P-Type 2N5461 which is a 2N5458 complement, (just picked it from the P-Types I already had as being in the family), I got 645mV (0V) and 184mV (+5V). For the record increasing the +5V to +10V made no difference at all.
I suspect that if the FET is chosen correctly you could improve on these figures and get an even larger range.
Interesting info thanks for your thoughts on this Albert. I suspect from your posts that you know a lot more about how these things work than the person who designed it, in fact you know a lot more than most of the people who design these things when you look at how many just tweak old tried and tested designs and bolt on a few new bits.
DeleteIt would be interesting to see how changing the JFET as you suggest affects it
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHey IvIark, how come there's a JFET in this layout if it isn't in the schematic that you linked to in an earlier comment? Unless I'm missing something,..
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi all. For the record I got a kit version (Fuzzdog) and love it, but I was disappointed that the extra gain control only works on the last 10% of the dial.
ReplyDeleteSo I replaced the linear pot with a reverse-log pot and the problem is totally solved.
Hello. I have built a Les Lius with a PCB from Tayda and the schematic is almost like this one . The sound does not pass the 2N5088 and the resistors values are the same than this version. Does someone have the voltages values for the collector, base and emitter please so I can check watch is going wrong with my built? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteDoes someone have the right voltages values for the collector, base emitter of the 2N5088 ? In my Les Lius, the sound does not pass the transistor.Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI'm getting over 7V on the collector. Not sure if that's the correct voltage or not but it sounds OK (using a 2N4401). I've simplified it for breadboard, no fancy JFET switching. Also I don't think you need all 5 diodes. The switch goes between a parallel pair or a single diode. Why not just switch in the last diode facing the other way [it means you can use a cheaper switch]?
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete"The Lovepedal Les Lius features a three way toggle switch that allows you to change tones from 5E3 Woody (Tweed Fender Deluxe), High Power Twin (50's Fender Twin) and Master Volume Tchula (combination of both the 5E3 Woody and the High Power Twin)."
DeleteNote that description tells you the original pedal had a 3 way switch. That was to select between each of the 2x1N914, 1xBAT46, 2xBAT46 options as separate in-circuit components for different distortion characteristics. Somehow here this has been changed to a DPDT switch which can only offer the Schottky options with the 1N914s in circuit in parallel all of the time. With that setup you could do just what you suggest but, if you want the correct original 3 way setup, you can't.
My advice is to use a 3 way rotary or a 3PDT toggle switch and remove the 1N914s and put them on their own separate switch selection. If you do that you can't just add in the extra BAT46 and you need a third single one.
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Delete(Apologies for the note about deleted multiple comments. I didn't get the message about waiting for adjudication until the third attempt!)
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAs for the 2N4401 swap, if I simulate this in LTspice it shows pretty much what you have found. The voltage on the collector is around 8.3V whereas for the 2N5088 it is about 5.3V. With a 100mV pk input and no clipping mechanism connected that shows a clean sinewave for the 2N5088 but some asymmetric distortion of the waveform with the 2N4401 already. This is due to it switching off on negative peaks. The gain of the 2N5088 in this stage is about 8.8x and the 2N4401 is about 7.1x.
DeleteTry dropping the value of the 3.3Meg to 1Meg and the collector voltage should drop to around 6.75V. This will affect things like input impedance but that should not be a major problem. You could also try dropping the emitter resistor down to 270R and upping the collector load resistor to 3k9 and it now reduces to around 6.5V with a gain just slightly higher than the 2N5088.
That should be enough headroom for the circuit to work well with the 2N4401 but, bear in mind, it is now slightly different and may sound slightly different too. As in all things guitar, it will not be night and day!!! Remember, the output signal of the stage is being clipped to the diode voltages just after this so a lot of slight differences at the peaks are being thrown out by the diodes anyway. Try experimenting with those values.
If I check with a few different transistor types those with high gain give closer voltages. The BC550C is a higher gain low noise type which I use a lot and with 3.3Meg/3k3/330R it gives 6.1V in LTspice. It is cheap and easy to source but stick to the "C" category. You could try that.