Friday, 27 April 2012

Box of Hall Reverb - culturejam

A nice little Belton Brick reverb build here.  As described by cj:

This one is pretty simple. It's the new smaller Belton/Accutronics brick and a quad op amp, a Reverb Mix control and a tone control I'm calling "Dampen". It's a dead-simple low-pass filter right off the brick's output (or rather, one of the outputs) in parallel with a fixed cap to ground. I got that little idea from earthones' suggestion of a tone control for the 2399 reverb I did. (credit where due!) I'd say this is about 75% similar to the application note, but with the added tone control, slightly different filtering, and buffered VREF.

I've tried this with the Medium and Long decay bricks. The Long can definitely get some cool ambient spacy sounds going on. And with the tone control at min, it's really bright (either brick type). The only difference I can hear is the decay time.

Circuit is verified and sounds pretty damn good.

Demo by Geiri:




You can get the Belton bricks from Musikding here.  I'd suggest going for the BTDR-2H because it's smaller, but have included a layout for the older BTDR-1H bricks as well, just in case someone has one they want to use.

Layout for BTDR-2H bricks:




and one for the older BTDR-1H bricks:



It seems to be very popular so here's the Box of Hall - Heavenwithin modded version.



233 comments:

  1. Thanks man, I've been building your boards for a while now. The overdrives and fuzzes mostly.
    this time I am looking for a nice pedal for a guitar reverb. could this be the one?

    How would you describe this reverb? is this a warm sounding reverb? does it sound digital in any particular way?

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    1. I haven't built it yet but I've heard very good things about the Belton bricks. The main signal isn't digitised, so the dry signal goes through a buffer and then the reverb is mixed in at the end of the circuit, so with only the effect being digitised I don't think it should sound digital in the same way as some poor rack or pedal effects that convert everything to 1s and 0s can do.

      I tend to use a wet only rack for reverb and delay with my main amp, but have really wanted a small reverb pedal so I don't have to mess with the rack if I just want to jam on a combo or something. I've got a Verbzilla but I don't like the main signal being digitised and using it wet only with a mixer makes it more complicated than it needs to be. So even with less reverb types and options, for me this looks ideal with its analog dry path and so I'll definitely be building it.

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  2. For the BTDR-2H layout could you help me pick a brick?
    http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=1211
    Would I want the Horizontal Short one?

    Keep up the great work IvIark. Love this website.

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    Replies
    1. It depends how long you want the decay of your reverb. This is the specs:

      Short - 2.0 sec
      Medium - 2.5 sec
      Long - 2.85 sec

      So take your pick. Personally I'd go for long because I like big reverb and it is controllable via the pots if I want to make it less obvious, but whatever suits you best.

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  3. Oh, man. I'm stupid. I thought the sizes were referring to the physical size of the brick, and not decay. Ha.

    Thanks, IvIark.

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  4. Hi Mark, You wouldn't happen to know if this is anything similar to the Malekko Chicklet would you, or do you have any info on that bitch please?
    :0)

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    Replies
    1. Sorry mate I missed this. Haven't a clue to be honest, I've never seen inside a Chicklet. But I know the Chicklet doesn't use a Belton module, so it's unlikely to be too similar. Although having said that, the Belton bricks are just three PT2399s and the required additional components in a potted block, and so you never know, he may have cut one open to see what's what.

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    2. No worries mate. Thanks buddy.

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  5. http://mirosol.kapsi.fi/varasto/boxes/dvreb2_hall.jpg

    Very nice. I think i have one knob BTDR-1H-Long based verb for sale at the moment :)
    +m

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  6. Hi Mark! Where can I add a tone and a volume control on the board and wich potentiometer I need? I don't have the technical comprehansion for it.

    Thanks for your help in advance!

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    Replies
    1. Well the Dampen pot is a tone control, but what are you hoping to get from the volume control? The Reverb pot controls the level of reverb, and your dry signal should be at unity.

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    2. I've the problem, when I activate the Reverb, it gets heavy louder than the dry signal and it looses many highs.

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  7. No ideas for my problems? :-(

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    Replies
    1. Do you mean the reverb level gets too loud and loses highs, or the dry level or both? Do you want an overall volume and tone control or just reverb level?

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  8. "the reverb level gets too loud and loses highs" exact! :-)

    I need a volume and tone control just for reverb level. I using a 3dtp switch with true bypass.

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  9. Does anybody happen to have a little demo of this that I could hear please? I'd ever so grateful. I've done a little searching on the web for a demo, but can't seem to find anything.

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    Replies
    1. http://hotbottles.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/prototype-reverb-pedal-using-the-accutronicsbelton-btdr-2h-module/

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    2. Ha-ha, thanks buddy! That's freaky man, we both sent the same post (kinda) at the same time, (cue "Twilight Zone" theme)

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU

      Thanks Mark! Looks like I may be coming to an end of all my chores very soon! Aces. Then we can get back to what's really important!

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  10. Ap bap dap, just found this; http://428wilson.com/~sallaway/test_recordings/BTDR-2H-medium.mp3

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  11. Thanks for the layout!! It worked first time and was easy to comprehend:
    http://hotbottles.wordpress.com/2012/06/20/prototype-reverb-pedal-using-the-accutronicsbelton-btdr-2h-module/

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  12. Anyone manage to get this one to fit inside a 1590B style box? Or rather the ones from Tayda that are about the same size.

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    1. I'd be surprised if anyone could cram it in to a box that size with the brick as well. 1590BB minimum I would guess.

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    2. Hmm, just because you said that i think im gonna attempt it haha.
      Been measuring and thinking about it and thats why i asked, now i have a mission!

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  13. Just finished this, i have the same issues as Terror had really, it's alot lounder then unity. And yes, alot of the highs dissapears. Actually it colors the sound quite a bit, when switched on it's a toally diffrent tone then the dry signal. Are any of the caps supposed to be tantalums or anything like that? Gonna attempt to fit this and the Deep Blue Delay into a BB during the week, will be bloody tight haha.

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    1. The first opamp channel is used as a buffer before the signal is split off to the brick and a dry path. The second half of the opamp is used to mix the dry and effected signal back together and is a gain stage at the end of the day. Experiment with that 33K at the top right next to the 4n7. That resistor determines how much gain you get from the mixer part of the opamp and so reducing it should allow you to fine tune the build. Maybe a trimmer there is a good idea so you can set it precisely.

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    2. The volume boost is indeed quite easily fixed with the trimmer Mark mentioned. I only recently noticed the severe loss in highs though. Apparently I had only tested with clean guitar, where the loss isn't that noticable. But with something like a fuzz in front of it, it becomes really dull when the reverb is engaged, even with the reverb level all the way down. I couldn't find any mention of this problem in the thread on freestomboxes though...

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  14. changing that 33k helps for the volume boost, still i cannot understand why it's so dark and toneless sounding. the damp switch barley do anything for me, only at high verb setting it changes the reverb itself by adding a little bit more highs but thats only for the verb, not the signal itself.
    heres a audio demo i did, you can clearly hear when it's activated because all the highs dissapears. anything one can do for this maybe?
    https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2828668/reaperpedals/box_of_hall_tone_demo.mp3

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  15. I think you can try reducing the value of 4n7 parallel to the 33k, that might help, not sure though. Try anything from 470pf-1.5nf . Just a guess.

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  16. First off, thanks for the great veros!
    I just finished this design, without any switches or LED, just to see if the circuit itself was ok. I think I've got some ground problem, becuase when I put my finger on lug 1 and the back of the rev pot the circuit sounds great, but when I take my finger away it hums and distorts the signal. Any ideas on this, or is it just bad ground connection?

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  17. Mine is not working, it is giving a continuous hiss or distorted signal at very low volume. When I checked the voltage at the output of 78L05 pin 3 by placing the Positive End of the the DMM at pin 3 and the negative at ground , it is showing 7.7V , but when I also grounded the pin 2 of the 78L05 then it is showing 5.02V. How do we measure the out voltage from 78L05? What may be causing the problem? any ideas?

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  18. Finally Done. It was a faulty brick, such a expensive loss :(
    Sounds superb.
    Many were complaining this to sound dark. Do the following mods

    1)for the 470Pf use 100pf

    2)for 4n7 use 1n

    3)for 33n of the damp capacitor, use 22n

    4)for 33k to the left of 4n7 use 10k


    Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. looks like the first 2 mods are now part of the layout.

      I would suggest adding 3 and 4 too, coz they most certainly make this sound better.

      thanks for the layout Mark, and thanks for the the mods Heavenithin.

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    2. Cheers DrRJE....Glad that you liked the mods.

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    3. Thank you Heavenwithin.
      These capacitor swaps certainly mean a big improvement. You saved this pedal for me! :-)

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    4. Thank you Heavenwithin for the mods! They most definately improve this pedal. It sounds amazing now. Also learned a lesson when trying to troubleshoot my build. Went through all my wiring, component placement, values, cut inbetween rows, re-heated joints, swapped chips, and started taking off caps to test before I realized I missed a tiny link under the chip!

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  19. Now it works, and it sounds good! Found an unwanted solder bridge that I didn't see the first time i checked. It's always the small details...

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  20. This may be a stupid question but how does one perceive the big blue rectangular 100u on the left? It looks to be sitting on the board like an IC.

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  21. And for the "2 links in one hole" under the TL074...are there 2 wires coming from the first row of each side of the board & meeting in the same hole?

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  22. The 100u is an axial cap which are horizontal and not vertical like every other cap. And yes, you take 2 wires and put them through the same hole and solder them, and the remaining 2 ends go in the other 2 holes, thats how I achieve these double linkings.

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  23. I just wired this up with the jumpers below the IC first. I found it very hard to get the IC onto the board far enough for the pins to go through the holes. Is there an easier way to achieve this? Is this the reason sockets are used?

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    Replies
    1. There are a few good reasons to use sockets, and this is definitely one of them. There is a small gap under them which makes using links under the IC painless. Another advantage is so that you don't have to apply heat at all to the IC so there's no chance of damage when soldering, and it also gives you the opportunity to swap if you get a noisy or damaged IC, or allow you to audition other types of IC in the case of things like the Tubescreamer. The only downside that I've heard anyone mention about socketing is the worry about the IC coming loose, but there is really no chance of that happening IMO. The connection is far too solid for it to slip out without being prised.

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    2. sockets are used to protect the ic from heat damage while soldering and to make it easier to change the ic. I presume you are using bare wire for the links and not insulsted wire. I tend to use the cutoffs from caps and resistors for jumpers, these are pretty thin and i`ve never had a problem seating sockets over them.

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  24. Hey Mark

    I have a request for a vero for an actual spring reverb like say the van amp soles-mate, Little Lanilei Reverb or the stage center reverb.
    I'd be gladly willing to verify one of them or make the layout but it would only be the second layout I've done. I did one for a fuzz face w/fuller mod. sorry if this isn't the best place to make a request didn't know where to make one.

    Here is the schematic for the stage center http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/stage_center_reverb_sc.gif?phpMyAdmin=78482479fd7e7fc3768044a841b3e85a

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  25. The layout for the btdr-1h, the larger belton brick, is verified. Not that this is a surprise but didn't see where anyone had built the box of hall with the old brick yet. Also I got it all to fit nicely in a 125B

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    1. Excellent, thanks for that

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    2. How does it sounds? Any problems with volume boost or anything else? Planning on building this fx with the larger belton brick.

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    3. Do you have a picture of the guts of your pedal?

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  26. here is a vero layout I'm working on for a stage center reverb. If any of yall would like to look over it for me to see if there is a mistake anywhere i'd be grateful.

    http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99803.msg876021#msg876021

    Mark if this is the wrong place or you don't want this here. Please delete the post.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'll try to have a look over it tonight. My daughter wants to know if you're the lead singer of McFly :o)

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    2. Thanks Mark, I hate to break it your daughter but I'm not Tom, I'm Taylor. Probably, not surprised

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    3. She's gutted! :o) Although we met them all earlier today in the Trafford Centre so she can't be too unhappy!

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  27. Hey Mark

    Did you get a chance to look over the vero? I just updated it because I made a mistake.

    http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=99803.0

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  28. I just finished this today. A couple things: 1) it's loud, 2) it adds some highs to the overall tone, and 3) the dampen knob doesn't seem to do anything.

    1) for the volume increase, should I raise or lower the 33k to the left of the 4n7? I've tried 10k and 22K as some have suggested here and its significantly louder than unity.

    2) For the highs, should I mess with the 33n to damp2? would 22n decrease the highs?

    3) I don't know about this. Does it work like a normal tone, or is the difference really subtle.

    Thanks!

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  29. Heavenwithin modded version added

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  30. I just finished this one today (the Heavenwithin modded version) and man it sounds sweeeeet.


    http://ubuntuone.com/6vVoRO82PggNx6T4oI5FL9
    http://ubuntuone.com/4PKOfyQRFwMp79ixnaLWqO
    http://ubuntuone.com/4HkBZipIHaZYgg5RbrXpNh

    Thanks Guys

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  31. Is there a way to add a volume control to this? Even with the 10k resistor like in the modded version I'm getting a significant volume boost that is annoying. Otherwise this sounds really nice!

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  32. If I put a 25 k resistor in place of the 33k/10k would that work as a volume control? And how would I wire the 3 legs of the pot? Thanks!

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  33. Built this twice now.1st one did'nt get any sound from it so did another one (heavenwithin modded version) using all new components,now getting a very very low distorted sound with reverb.Check my soldering for bridges / cold joints all look ok.Anyone help before i try a 3rd one.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is your regulator giving out 5V?
      +m

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    2. I'll check that tomorrow,if it's not how do i adjust it.

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    3. Those 100mA regulators have been a problem in many of my builds. If there's even a slightest short at the building phase - it will get burned. I've been using only those TO-220 packed 1A L7805 regulators for a while now, without an issue.

      Just measure your regulator. It should read 9V at in, 5V at out and 0V at ground.

      If it's burned, you could swap it for a fresh one. But if there's a short in 5V network, the new one will get burned right away too..
      +m

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    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  34. Probably the reverb brick is faulty. Mine also happened that way. If you are using a long brick its quite possible its faulty, 3 out of 4 were faulty in my case. Try a medium brick, those have better quality and reliability.

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    Replies
    1. Weird. I've had 3 long bricks and all work great.
      +m

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    2. Checked the regulator & i get 9v at in / 0V at ground & 5.4 at out.Is there a way to test the reverb brick is working? This is a one off build for the guitarist in my sons band so don't want to buy another one unless i know it's faulty.Any reverb brick suppliers in the UK?

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  35. anyone seen this problem before: with pedal on (reverb pot at 0) the dry signal is cut by about 80%. as i ramp up the reverb the dry signal goes to 0 and no reverb signal is added to the mix. almost like a volume knob in reverse but much noisier (noise is bad pot maybe? unlikely though). damp pot does nothing. i saw some people had trouble with their bricks and i have two around and tried them both with the same results.

    i've tested the regulator voltage and power to the IC, they were 4.94 and 8.97 respectively so no issues there. checked and rechecked all solder joints and tested for bridges, etc.

    anyone seen this before?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi im david from spain just I have same problem. At last work your reverd? Thanks

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  36. I just built the heavenwithin version and I'm getting sound BUT:

    1. There is a slapback delayed effect or latency between my playing and the sound.
    2. The "reverb" knob is working as a volume control
    3. The "dampen" doesnt seem to be doing anything
    4. When I plugged in the pedal, the LED flashed then never came on again.

    I've built the original version (belton2) with the heavenwithin mods and it worked perfectly. I'm not sure what's causing these faults but it's hard to diagnose because it is actually working (almost). Any help would be much appreciated!

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  37. Hi all,
    Just wondering if anyone has a diagram/schematic for either of the versions above but with the stereo output implemented. Also, I was wondering if anybody's made a line-in (mono), line out (stereo) version?
    Thanks!
    Regards,
    Frank

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  38. Hi. I want to build this reverb, but I am very interesting about adding hight pass filter to it also or instead of DAMP(low pass filter). I need reverb for bassguitar and don´t want to listen a lot of reverbed low frequencies. Can you give me some advice how to do that, or schematic? Really thanks. Bob

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You may have your own idea on what frequencies and values you want to use, but if you for instance use a 100n cap and 100K pot then in one position everything below around 16hz will be attenuated (and so all the bass frequencies can get through) and in the other position all audio frequencies would be attenuated.

      You would need to remove the 33n cap attached to Damp 2, and instead put the 100n cap from BTL5 to Reverb 3. Then you would take a link from Reverb 3 to Damp 1 and 2 and take Damp 3 to ground.

      I'd recommend using a reverse log pot or else all the action will take place in the far clockwise rotation of the pot.

      Delete
    2. Really thanks for this high pass filter. I also need to know, if is already in this your vero schema high pass filter on input, as I see here http://www.accutronicsreverb.com/main/?skin=sub01_05_1.html that C1-22nf and R1-10k create pre-reverb hpf.

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    3. And what cut-off frequency this C1 and R1 do? Cause by this calculator http://www.muzique.com/schem/filter.htm it shows me attenuate 6dB under 723 Hz.

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  40. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  41. Hi Mark
    I fancied build one of these so sent off for my " brick " and its different to the one in the layout...its marked BTDR-2H DIGI-LOG REVERB but it only has one row of six pins !!! think im screwed...they cost a fortune too !!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, the newer brick does only have one row of 6 pins, as per the first layout above and Heavenwithin's mod. This is the datasheet:

      http://www.uk-electronic.de/PDF/Belton%20BTDR-2.pdf

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  42. Thats the one !!....but I may be missing something here or being extremely newbi'ish.....but all the layouts show a 14 pin opamp

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  43. just checked the layout more thoroughly ...TL072 is the 14 pin opamp....am I assuming the brick is not shown on layout , ( like pots and any other off board piece ) connects via wires to respective holes on the board

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  44. Replies
    1. Correct. Belton connections are shown as BLT1 to BLT6

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  45. I Had build today version heavewhithin modded and the signal
    Is cut as overdrive with noise.but just I touch track board near input
    Then just the signal is clean and work reverd perfect.
    Any idea?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 78L05 is in: 8.5 out 5.22.
      Can be break brick reverd?

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    2. In Resistor divide there is 8.5v same of in and it must be 4.5 v. Help !!!

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  46. Now work fine ! Grest spring reverd.

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  47. Any Ideas ???...I have just a bypass signal, maybe a little brighter than the amp tone.....but no reverb what so ever ???

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    Replies
    1. Fixed.....Note to self...dont be so sure to blame the reverb unit when its the poxy opamp thats Knackered

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  48. Hi guys! Something really annoying is happening with these voltage regulators. I've tried several different ones and I never got the damn thing to work...
    I've even tried putting a L7805 instead - which, if I get it - is made for higher current and the mesurements are still not the ones I should get.
    When I plug it in, I get no reverb at all and only a dry signal, even when the pedal is engaged.
    I'm pretty sure I populated the board correctly.
    So if anyone has a clue, I'll listen to you.
    Thank you so much!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What voltages are you getting at the regulator?

      If you have a tiniest short in 5V network, then the voltages will be off.

      Worst case scenario would be that the brick is burnt from getting too high voltage in it - this is unlikely, but still a possibility.
      +m

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  49. Hi Miro!

    Oh please I hope my brick's not burnt! That would be a real pain...

    As I said, I've tried 3 regulators.
    The first one was obviously fried because it read 9.35 at each pin.
    The second one read 9.35v on the input and around 8.40 on the other two pins.
    And the last one, which was a L7805 (those bigger ones) gave more "normal" results:
    In: 9.35
    Ground: 6 something
    Out: also around 6.

    Ok I just checked again and now the L7805 reads the same as the second regulator I've tried. I don't get what's happening.

    I'm going to look for a short.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That settles everything. You have grounding issue. Ground pin should always be 0V. If you have anything else than exactly 0V in there, it can't work. Find out the reason why the ground isn't where it's supposed to be. That should clear everything up.
      +m

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    2. So do you think that grounding issue could be caused by a short somewhere in the circuit?

      Probably a newbie type of question but should the ground pin on the regulator be connected to ground?

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    3. I just checked the pinout of the brick. Pin 2 should be Power Ground and the middle lug of the regulator is actually connected to it, so there shouldn't be a ground issue, right? I'm just guessing as I am not that good at electronics but that sounds logical to me...

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    4. FIXED!
      I had inverted the wires from BLT6 and 4 so the middle lug wasn't really connected to ground.
      Great sounding reverb! It's amazing, though the damp knob doesn't seem to do much at all. Or maybe I messed up a few wires, I'll check it tonight or tomorrow.

      Thanks a lot Miro, you've helped a lot!

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    5. I recall that the Damp was pretty mild in my build too. Don't have time to skim through the comments above right now, but there might be an answer to that somewhere :)
      +m

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    6. I use 50K lin pots for both and I prefer it that way. The damp makes a huge difference like that.

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    7. It is, indeed. I need to play a little more with it but that thing is superb. My Verbzilla's going to the garbage hahaha! Just kidding, I might keep it for ambient reverbs...

      I've read the whole thread of comments again and there's nothing about the Damp pot for the Heavenwithin modded version. I'll re-check my wiring!

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    8. Thanks for the suggestion Geiri, I'll try that if nothing's wrong with my wiring :)

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    9. Think i'll try 50K for damp too once i get back to it..
      +m

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  50. quick question: Is it possible to get 100% wet signal with the mix knob? Or does it still pass the dry signal through? If not, is there a way to add a control to mix out the dry signal?

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  51. Thanks for everyone who puts this site together, its amazing how much work is invovled. I just finished this build and everything sounds good and appears to be working well. The only problem is when the reverb, and damp are turned all the way up it goes into a "infinite oscillation" until I turn either knob back down. Anyone else have this problem?

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  53. If you feel that the "damp" pot doesn't do anything, try wiring the B10K pot as follows:

    Leave Damp 1 unwired

    Damp 2 to Reverb 3

    Damp 3 to BTL5

    I hope that helps. Also, try experimenting with different pot values.

    Thanks for posting this layout. It's an excellent sounding reverb!

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    Replies
    1. GREAT !!
      I had the same problem with the damp pot.
      Your wiring works perfectly well
      Thanx !!

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  55. Built the Heavenwithin verion "by accident", didn't realize there had been update.
    Sounds excellent. Chose a 50k lin for the "damp" and though it's not drastic i think it does the job well enough.
    Another interesting thing i notice is when a use the reverb first in a chain of six true bypass pedals i notice an improvement of tone even when i turn the reverb knob totally off.
    Might be voodoo, but i imagine it buffers the signal or whatever it does.

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  57. Can I use a 4pdt switch to make a Classic/Heaven switch ?

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    Replies
    1. Yes, but because two of the components to be switched are in parallel arrangement, you can get by with a more common 3PDT switch.
      I am currently working on a vero layout with this mod, along with a footswitchable reverb level pot (so as to have two different verb levels available at the stomp of a switch)
      As soon as I finish it I will post it here so you can at least get an idea how the switching would be accomplished

      Geezer

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    2. Nice, I will wait for that mod! Thanks

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    5. Here's the mod

      For simplicity, I chose to "fly" the mod components so that the basic board stays the same.

      3PDT (on/on) Switch "down" is Culturejam, switch "up" is Heavenwithin

      I also added Geiri's suggested mods for better pot operation (changed pot values) with notes as to the original values

      Geezer

      http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/jallenshaw/Box%20of%20Hall%20Reverb%20Mods/BoxofHallStockModSwitchGeiriMods_zps31bcd1d1.gif

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    6. And here's the "whole shabang".....selectable Reverb level pots

      you can use a 3PDT for this, but I like to have an LED indicator so I know when the 2nd pot is engaged, thus the 4PDT

      http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/jallenshaw/BoxofHallwithReverbLevelSelection_zpsff8f6b6d.gif

      Geezer

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    7. Ordered the few parts I need to complete this build.
      It will be as linked above, with the stock/mod switch, the dual selectable reverb levels, AND I am adding an adjustable/defeatable feedback loop, like the tenebrion reverb by grind customs

      http://www.grindcustomsfx.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=219

      I will post details, pics and a review when completed, if anyone is interested

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    8. Just finished mine.....very nice verb, and the footswitchable reverb level selection is VERY useful.

      The "mod" selector is not very useful, as the original culturejam version is clearly the one I prefer. The heavenwithin mods are much thinner, so only mod from the original if you like a thinner sounding reverb.

      I didn't put a bypass switch in, as I always have the verb on at some level, and turning one of the level pots all the way down accomplishes the same effect.

      I really like the feedback loop, too.....gives some really spacey effects, and is nice to use for volume swell effects.

      http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/jallenshaw/Box-O-Verbtop2_zps98f03fd5.jpg

      http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/jallenshaw/Box-O-Verbguts2_zps61e94005.jpg

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    9. im interested in this feedback loop you did, but i dont see any info on it on your modded layout

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    10. Take a look at this link, that's where I got the feedback loop idea, and the one I implemented.

      http://www.grindcustomsfx.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=219

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  58. I finished building this one yesterday (long decay brick).
    This is one of the best small reverb unit I heard so far, amazing !
    The only thing is that like many the damp pot has no effect.
    So I swapped it for a 50kB one, I can ear a very subtle difference, depending on the pickup I use.
    I'm considering putting that 22n cap on a socket and try different values, but is there something else I might consider to improve this tone pot ?

    Anyway, even whithout the damp control, it's a totally worthy build

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    Replies
    1. I socketed the 22nf cap and tried 100nf, 1nf, nothing.
      Well, that didn't change anything

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  59. I just built this one last night. I used a 47n for the tone cap and added a dwell control . it was good when it was stock before, but it sounds great now. I also added more reverb level to mine as I wanted it to have a ton of verb should I ever need it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. John, can you explain or give a diagram as to how you added the dwell control?

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    2. http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com/Effects/BOHreverb/Box_of_Hall_-_With_Dwell_V2.png

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    3. Ah....thanks much John!

      Geezer

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    4. John, looking at the linked diagram it seems Damp1 grey wire should be Reverb3, is it? I'm building it with a Belton BTDR-1H....
      Thank you.

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    5. yep. sorry for the typo. I have updated it now:

      http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.com/Effects/BOHreverb/Box_of_Hall_-_With_Dwell_V2.png

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    6. Hi John, Im building this per your layout to add the Dwell option. Im not quite understanding exactly where the 4.5v is coming from on your layout. Could you please help explain how to generate 4.5v along side of the 9v for your build?

      Do I connect two equal valued resistors of any ohmic value in series branched straight from the 9v source to get 4.5v for this?
      Sorry I'm still a little new at this.

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    7. there's actually no wire supposed to be there. the 4.5V is just the junction point of the two 10K resistors. I've since updated the vero.

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    8. Fantastic John, thank you for confirming.

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  60. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  61. i first tried the two B50K pots, but actually prefer a B10K tone pot with a 22n cap on the tone circuit, and a B25K reverb pot. I also removed the 470p capacitor completely since the belton tanks are dark sounding to begin with. i have a medium tank in it right now but am going to replace it with a short one (since they are said to have less modulation).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. John, do you really notice any difference in tone with the damp pot ?

      Thanks for the dwell add-on !

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  62. Just want to check something to make sure I don't screw anything up. Mainly what I'm trying to do is add a volume pot to control the dry signal, and a switchable octave for the reverb signal. Is the reverb pot a blend pot (Dry to lug 1, wet to lug 3, out from lug 2)?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. the reverb pot is not wired like a blend pot. reverb enters lug 3, dry enters lug 2, and lug 1 goes to +VB. I have no idea what you mean by 'switchable octave signal'?

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    2. I'm wiring it so that the reverb goes through an octave up circuit, which can be switched in and out.

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  63. How would I replace the DAMP pot with a resistor? I still find it too subtle.

    I'd like to change out the DAMP control for John's DWELL pot, as I'd like to have more reverb and a longer decay available.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. For the damp pot, you could substitute a couple of fixed resistors for the pot, say a 5k for pins 3&2 series into another 5k for pins 2&1, then run the tone cap to ground from the junction of the 2x resistors.....creating a basic fixed voltage divider.

      The dwell is simply a feedback loop....take a look at the schematic on this site>>> http://www.grindcustomsfx.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=219

      I did that on mine a it works great

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  64. Wow, okay. I just put the DAMP on a trimpot, then wired up the DWELL control. This is an absolute must for this reverb, if you ask me. You can dial in a decay that is much more "spring" like.

    I'm gonna try an even larger DWELL pot to see if I can get some really crazy reverb happening.

    To anybody that does this, don't forget to still connect DAMP 1 to REV 3.

    Thanks John Kallas and Geezer!

    --

    On a side note, maybe I'm in the minority, but I thinks its unfortunate that these Belton bricks have modulation built in that you can't adjust or get rid of. I've never heard a spring reverb that has any kind of modulation. I'm hoping in the future, they release a version of the brick that has no modulation, or at least one you can have control over.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think I may try the short version.....John said in a post above that they possibly had less modulation than the medium (what I have) and long.

      Glad you got it working to your satisfaction

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    2. to increase the dwell, you don't raise the value of the pot, you lower the value of the feedback resistor.

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    3. and yes, I installed a short brick in mine now and it does have less modulation than the medium and long ones did. I wish that it didn't have any but it is better now, especially with the dwell control.

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  65. I love this reverb now. Put the DAMP on a trimpot (set and forget). Then added the DWELL. Replaced the FB resistor with a trimpot and set it to just before it starts to oscillate. Now this thing can get anything from a nice short decay to crazy sustain. VERY cool. The circuit is now enjoying its 1590A home.

    I may throw down the cash to experiment with a short brick, rather than the medium brick, if the modulation really starts to annoy me.

    Thanks again!

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  66. Is there an easy way to add "tails" to this reverb. So when I switch the pedal off, the decay ends naturally?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm kinda a noob, but I know the TC Electronic has a buffered/non-buffered switch to give it tails... which makes sense, if your using 3pdt and switch to true bypass when you switch off then it is going to cut the board from the signal completely. So it might be worth a try to setup a buffered bypass scheme... someone with a bit more knowledge than me will have to help you with that... On a second note, I'd love to know myself!

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    2. Oh, and after a bit of searching I found a reverb layout by Harald that's stereo out with tails, and sure enough, its a buffered circuit...http://www.sabrotone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DigitalReverbVer2.gif

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  67. I'm planning to build John's version with the Dwell knob. How would I chose which Belton brick to use? I know that they have the decay times documented, but I don't really know the difference in practice. Also with the feedback loop I think even the short version can be used with longer decays, right? I would like to add some space to my sound, but I don't need large hall effects. And I'm just asking, because here in Europe I can't really seem to find the medium version, both musikding and banzai effects only have the long and short versions from the smaller BTDR2. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I had the long one in mine originally, but replaced it with the short one since the short one has the least modulation and sounds more like a spring (which has no modulation). and the dwell control makes it able to have a much longer decay than the long one without the dwell, so i'd recommend the short one.

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    2. Hi John, I had made one of these a while back for a buddy of mine with the Heavenwithin Mods and a Long BTDR2. Is it worth me adding the Dwell control with the long decay brick? He was happy with it, but if I can make it better why not?

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    3. I think that the dwell is worthwhile with any length of brick.

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  68. Hi.. ever thought about doing a vero board for the Dead Astronaut Reverb? http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=101126.msg917324#msg917324 > looks like a pretty sweet reverb..

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  69. Finally I got my brick from Banzai music. Unfortunately the 6th leg was broken off. I talked to the support at Banzai, and they offered me either to replace it or 25% refund. I took the refund, as there is still a little chunk left on which I can solder a pin. But... I was thinking if it was really needed? As I see on the layout only pin 6 is used, but not pin 5 because it is not a stereo effect. Now do you think I could use pin 5 instead of pin 6? Then I wouldn't have to bother about resoldering pin 6. According to the specs both pin 5 and 6 are outputs. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I must be blind... BLT5 goes to the Damp pot, so disregard my question above, I'll need to solder the leg back :)

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  70. Just out of curiosity, how are you all mounting your belton's in your enclosures? I've seen some folks putting them on a separate vero board... is double stick tape the best bet?

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  71. so are we saying the damp control has more effect with a 50k pot instead of the listed 10k? because I feel like im only imagining it to have an effect right now, very subtle if anything at all

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I felt it to be quite psychoaural even with 50K..
      +m

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    2. i changed my pot to 50k and still didnt think the damp was damping enough... or undamping enough... maybe i had an error somewhere but I did this wiring suggested by Jason above and now I can get a sick sounding slap back delay with the damp all the way down

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    3. I also found the DAMP pot at 50k to be subtle. I put it on an internal trimpot and wired up a DWELL pot in its place. I highly recommend adding the DWELL.

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    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. cool... im gonna try it. would increasing the reverb level pot to say 50k allow more 'wetness' or more verb?

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  72. Guys, I built John's version with the Dwell pot (highly recommend that as many others... Really useful), but I get the output level below unity. Is there a way to make the effect louder? Maybe increasing the last gain stage? Also I have a pop when I switch the pedal off (but not when I switch it on), any ideas how to cure that? Maybe increasing the output pulldown resistor from 33k to something bigger? Thanks a lot!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hm... Doublechecked, and now actually I don't hear neither the pop, nor the decrease in output level. I've heard it over headphones but I don't hear it over the cab. Weird...

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  73. i have had a hell of a time with this one. I am getting reverb and the controls are working, but my signal is SUPER quiet and muted. I've replaced and measured every capacitor and I've measured every resistor and potentiomenter and have been over the cuts and links like 20 times in the past 3 days.

    I keep thinking its a bad brick, but would I still get reverb with a bad brick?

    ReplyDelete
  74. I'm getting a slight volume boost when engaged. Anyone know how to adjust the output on this thing?

    Its been mentioned a bit in the above comments, but not with any certainty.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You can try to build in a voltage divider at the end, just like the traditional volume pots, but with fixed resistors. Or even better would be a trimpot: connector 1 to the point marked "Output" now, connector 2 to the actual output and connector 3 to the ground. Then you can set the unity volume and leave it that way. Unfortunately there is not enough room for this on the layout. I'd try first with a 50k-100k trimmer.

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  75. I'm measuring +7v at the 78l05 output. When I connect positive ground to ground it gives +5v. Tried another 78l05 but I still have the same problem. Is my reverb brick broken ?

    ReplyDelete
  76. Hi there,
    I'm building the b.o.h with the dwell control as drawn by John kallas. I do not know exactly how it works but i found a schematic where damp lug 1 is suposed to be connected to rev. lug 3. I asume this not the case when adding the dwell network because i missed it at the description or am i missing something? (Awesome site. I already build the GI fuzz and timmy and zendrive are on the way)

    ReplyDelete
  77. Works like a charm without the connection.
    The dwell and damp controls have little effect so far

    ReplyDelete
  78. Dwell works perfect. I didnt notice it before because i had the reverb pot to low.
    I have no boost where its placed in the chain now. But just in case i would like to have an overal volume or level pot on the outside. Is this only posible with a voltage divider? Or can i just replace a resistor for a pot somewhere. Damp is lousy. Even with 47n. Im going to connect damp 1 to reverb 3 to see if that effects the brightness

    ReplyDelete
  79. Do I need to tweak the circuit in order to use this reverb brick : http://www.banzaimusic.com/Belton-Digi-Log-Medium.html ?
    It is a spring reverb one, made by Belton too... Is it compatible?

    Best,

    Thomas

    ReplyDelete
  80. Is possible to use 12v power supply? It work?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 12 v power supply should be fine as long as you're still getting 5v out of the regulator.

      Delete
  81. I don't know if any admins or otherwise knowledgeable people still check out this thread, but I'm in need of help in troubleshooting this build. I built it once and had my voltage regulator inverted so I may have fried my brick (I have another one in the mail) but I wanted to have it looked at to make sure that's the problem. When I plug in I get perfect clean sound out of it, no weird gain or boosted highs or anything.

    Here are pictures of my board, front and back:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0kc13vvutgilb0g/boxOfHallFront.jpg
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/krj92zhcclt93aq/boxOfHallBack.jpg
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhyl7u85u2oon2q/boxOfHallBrick.jpg

    My Voltages:
    78L05:
    In - 12.34 (I'm using a 12v power supply)
    Ground - 0.0
    Out - 4.89 (that's why I think a 12v should still be okay)

    TL074CN
    Pin 1 - 6.17
    Pin 2 - 6.17
    Pin 3 - 6.16
    Pin 4 - 12.36
    Pin 5 - 5.60
    Pin 6 - 6.17
    Pin 7 - 6.17
    Pin 8 - 6.17
    Pin 9 - 6.17
    Pin 10 - 6.17
    Pin 11 - 0.0
    Pin 12 - 6.16
    Pin 13 - 6.17
    Pin 14 - 6.17

    BT DR-2H
    Pin 1 - 4.89
    Pin 2 - 0
    Pin 3 - 6.17
    Pin 4 - 0
    Pin 5 - 6.15
    Pin 6 - 6.16

    Any help anyone can give would be greatly appreciated :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To clarify, this is my second build, I scrapped the first one because I wasn't sure how much was fried. So the voltage regulator is oriented correctly.

      Delete
  82. First of all, thanks Mark for the awesome blog and this great pedal layout (and it's variations). Is the a consensus on the volume boost problem? I love this pedal, but when I switch it on, it hits the front end of my amp harder and is messing with my clean tone mojo ;0)
    If it weren't the last pedal in my chain at the moment, I'd put in a voltage divider via a 100k trimpot... but won't that dull the tone during the last cable run to my amp? Thanks again! joe

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. At least for the next rehearsal I've popped in a 100k trimmer as a voltage divider. Works fine, but I do feel like the signal loses some "sparkle" at the top. If anyone knows which resistor and value on the board would remedy the problem without the need to add a volume trim at the output, please post. Much appreciated!

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    2. Maybe try a big ass trimmer first. 500k or so? I think that should help a bit. Guitar volume pots are wired as voltage dividers and there switching from 250k to 500k to 1M makes a HUGE difference so why not here.

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    3. Thanks man! What's the rule of thumb for that - a higher value (ie 1MegOhms) will cause less "dulling", I take it?

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    4. Exactly, more highs will pass through with a bigger value. No problemo!

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    5. Perfect! I popped in a 500k and it worked like a charm. I should have figured this from guitar wiring in the first place (250k for Strats helps to take the trebly edge off single coils as opposed to the 500k for Humbuckers...) Thanks again man - the verb is sparkling nicely now.

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    6. Hello everybody, that cool reverb is my second diy build, and I like it a lot. Thanks you Ivlark, and all the ones who contribute to improve the circuits :)
      I have one question about that volume boost problem : if I want to put a voltage divider like you joedoc, should I put the trimmer between the dc jack + and the 9v circuit imput ? Thank you !

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  83. These bricks definitely sound amazing but the original layout needs modding. HeavenWithin's mods are a VERY good starting point. I suggest doing all of them as they all improve the sound dramatically and after you've done all of them, it's a whole different build. Also Jason's way of wiring the damp-pot is definitely the way to go. The original was way too subtle. The dwell control that was previously suggested here is a very good addition also. Definitely better with it than without. I did my own version of this and I'm starting to be pretty happy with it overall and the general sound blew me away. I kind of want to get a possibility of a shorter tail but I'm using a long brick so I guess that won't happen. Might try a medium next. I love a long tail with my springy sounds but some people may want it to be more subtle. Also I feel that the first quarter of the level pot is a bit too dramatic. I'd like a wider range of subtle reverb tones. Might try a LOG pot there.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Myrkky! I updated the schematic based on all of these adds -- can someone double check it?

      http://s7.postimg.org/gfkysgd17/box_of_hall_heavenwithin_dwell_damp_mods.png

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  84. Okay, here's one for you Mark. My take on the subject: http://s29.postimg.org/b9ggsi4ra/Reverb_1575x1050.jpg

    Highly modded with a dwell knob added. Don't know what it's called yet but at least it looks pretty flashy :D

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    Replies
    1. Awesome, it looks like a strat pick guard :o)

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    2. Yeah man, it's white pearl celluloid. The same thin stuff that you find in drums, accordions etc. It really doesn't show but the sides are sprayed with sort of a see-through dark brown color, much like coca cola. Also the celluloid has a slight brown polyurethane tint for a champagney color. Turned out pretty nice.
      Also thinking of doing a strat pedal
      Sunburst with a pearloid pickguard for a "control plate" and strat knobs.

      Delete
  85. As the damp pot seems subtle by most accounts I'd like to keep it a simple with just reverb level, can someone please explain to explain what to do just to leave out the damp control or if it is too complicated should I put it on a trimmer inside the pedal.
    Thanks in advance.

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  86. Hi, i'm having some trouble with this one. The reverb pot is controlling the volume, and the effect is quite a lot quieter than bypassed. Also there is a delay inwhich the sound leaves the pedal? Any help is appreciated.

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  87. Hi Jumi,

    You'll want to connect the effect output to one side of the pot, the other side to ground. The wiper will then be the new output, which you can trim down (a simple voltage divider). cheers, joe

    ReplyDelete