Saturday, 26 July 2014

Klon Centaur Silver Edition

Keith at BYOC reverse engineered a silver edition Klon when developing a PCB and noticed an error on soulsonic's 2009 schematic which was a couple of swapped resistor values around the Treble pot.  He also noticed a few value discrepancies which probably just amount to the difference between the gold and silver Klons.  The swapped resistors have been corrected in all Klon layouts on this site but I didn't want to just make the other changes to the existing layouts as I would like to keep the gold version up for those who would prefer to build it, and so I thought this version deserved its own thread. 
If you prefer to build this kind of circuit on PCB then the BYOC kit can be found here:

http://buildyourownclone.com/effects-pedals/silverpony.html

I don't know if they are going to start selling the PCB separately but you can of course enquire if you'd prefer to go that route.

Now I can hear some subtle differences when at the upper and lower end of the Treble pot, which will very probably be down to tolerance differences in the pot itself which could be as much as +/-20%.  I have to say in the more central positions I can't really hear any significant difference at all. At most  of the demo settings they sound identical to me, and at some the Silver Pony sounds a bit fuller.  Personally I preferred the Silver Pony.  Great job Keith.







and the corrected schematic



90 comments:

  1. Damn. I had the Klon board on my bench for at least a month and just populated all the resistors last night

    The whole reason I built it was because I was inspired by the sound of my friend's silver "no horse" Klon, so I gotta change my board now

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did the version you built have the 1K8 resistor at Treble 1 or 3?

      Delete
  2. Replies
    1. Do these changes and it will be a silver:

      1K8 at Treble 3 should be 4K7
      4K7 at Treble 1 should be 1K8
      2K at Gain1-3 should be 47R
      27K at Gain2-2 should be 10K
      12K at Gain2-2 should be 4K7
      820p cap should be 560p
      Volume pot is 10K Log

      Delete
  3. Thanks dude! I looked through and found the changes but your list makes it easier

    Gotta say I'm really excited to finish this build now. The demo sounded spot on, I know this will sound glorious in my rig

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  4. I see that you also rejigged the 100K going to the 3n9 and it's link but it looks like the connections remain exactly the same

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  5. Great layout! Thank you for all your work!
    Can you please post the schematics? At BYOC cannot be accessed.
    Regards
    Coi2001

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  6. Thank you for the schematic. I built it and it works, but I noticed that is less loud than another Klon that I built, I am going to have to test it with the audioprobe to see if there is signal loss somewhere. i'll keep you posted...
    coi2001

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    Replies
    1. Same with mine. It's working, but it does not have the normal amount of gain. Its acting more like a clean boost.

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    2. Strange because it's basically the same as the other layout but with just a few tweaked values. I'll go over it to check

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  7. Wow....what a great layout. Still waiting for verification before I start building.mmmm

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  8. It'll be good to go. It's based on my Rev 2 layout with just a few value changes, so I know the main layout is correct

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  9. Niceeeee! Now I'm really curious about the D9B. They are rated reverse voltage max at 10 V

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've got some D9B's and they're fine. Used is the way we do in these circuits there is never anything like 10V on them

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  10. Just ordered some Russian D9Es from an online vendor. I figure I can use 'em for other projects if they don't pan out for the Klon...

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    Replies
    1. By the way, I am planning to build a Klone using the Aion Electronics PCB, which I purchased a while back. It's a wonderful PCB and the instructions from the website are superb.

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  11. This is no longer on hold?

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    Replies
    1. No, there were a couple of errors in the BYOC schematic which i've confirmed is the case so I'm confident the layout matches the schematic

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  12. Should this be good to go? I'd love to take a stab at verifying this if the corrections have been made

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    Replies
    1. The original BYOC schematic had a couple of incorrect part values and one connection was different but that turned out to be an error so this should be good to go. It is based obviously on the last Klon layout which was verified by a few people and the changes aren't great so although at least one person doesn't seem to have got it sounding as it should, I'm pretty confident it matches the schematic.

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  13. Thanks Mark. I populated all of the resistors on my board according to the changes you specified in your previous comment from July 26th

    Where any changes made since then? I'll be looking over my board now

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I haven't made any since then. The resistor error in the BYOC schematic was a 100K instead of 10K at IC1 pin 5 which I think I always had as a 10K anyway. The cap error was an 82n at Treble 2 which I definitely never had in. My main concern when I saw the BYOC schematic is that they were showing the 15K at IC2 pin 2 connecting at the other side of the 47K at the same pin. But that was confirmed to be an error too.

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  14. You can tag this one. My board is working properly and sounding fantastic

    Thanks for the layout and all of the help Mark!

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  15. I've been playing with this circuit for hours and it sounds amazing :D

    It's pretty tight with great clarity and smooth sustain and dynamics. Buffered bypass sounds great too.

    I'm going to build the OD-820 next since I know some of you guys say it sounds even better than the Klon

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  16. I still haven't boxed this one (enclosures are in the mail), but I took it to rehearsal like this :P

    http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/Dub-T-123/92A13814-9CD7-4887-89FC-77C3BBBA3090_zpseobczexa.png

    It works amazingly well boosting my ac30 and I left it on the whole time! Even messily wired to my breadboard and cranked up loud this adds almost no noise, just like my friend's original silver Klon :D

    I really recommend this build. The max gain setting isn't quite as good as some other ODs but the low-medium gain settings are glorious!

    ReplyDelete
  17. And here's my finished build
    http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/Dub-T-123/290B1FE6-73E2-449C-BA05-6E084F530784_zpspe2jvhdc.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  18. Not the prettiest shot ever, but here are the guts (I ran out of all wire except red and black at the time lol)
    http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/Dub-T-123/9E3359F0-8355-4DE1-8364-9DC02693ECAC_zpspbtsndol.jpg

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    Replies
    1. Great job, thanks for the pic matey

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    2. Heeeeeey, these are the f*ckin' knobs i need! Can you tell me where did you get them? Thanks!

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  19. Thanks

    The knobs are Davies. You can get them from smallbear and probably mouser, etc

    If you find the real Davies in that oxblood or white you have to tell me though :P

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, sadly on Smallbear they are out of stock as in Musikding or Retroamplis :( I've only seen'em on ebay with massive s&h to Europe, or in Banzai Music (Germany), but these ones are very prone to sell what they don't have in stock and put the item on backorder for several weeks, plus, s&h costs are very high too being in Europe. I'll keep on searching, as Mouser ant their crazy minmums in order not to pay 25$ for s&h are out of scope for me :P

      Delete
  20. I got a quote from Davies about getting a batch of oxblood 1470 knobs made. The minimum order is 100, and the price for that is $3.617 each

    So that's not a great deal.

    For 250 the price drops to $2.17 each

    Finally, for 500 knobs the price is $1.428 each.

    So for $500 you're paying about the same per knob as you would for the black ones from smallbear. But I guarantee you could sell a lot of Klones with those oxblood knobs, and I'm sure people would gladly pay $5 each for them. Personally I just want the knobs for looks, and would sell some to cover the cost

    If anyone wants in on a group buy, those are the numbers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think I'll stay with the Banzai - Smallbear black ones. These prices for a bulk order are crazy, if we don't find 98 people more :P

      J.

      Delete
  21. I have a couple of 1N60s from the early 1990s, forward voltage measuring 0.32v. Are these close enough?

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  22. those should be fine. supposedly the russian d9e's are almost dead on to the original. i just measured some of mine and i got forward voltage readings of .45-.55V. the tone may be similar, but the output will be a little lower then if they were the original diodes or d9e's, but it should still sound great. if you want you can put a socket in place of the diodes, and try different diodes until you get something you like.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Attention: there's an error with a cut, in the image of the empty board:
    Follow the longest link, in the 12th column, down to the 8th row. The cut to the right is 3 columns away in the board with the components, but 4 columns away in the empty board. Right where one of the diodes should go... :(

    ReplyDelete
  24. Since I verified this with a fixed version of Mark's first layout I didn't notice that mistake with the cut

    You can easily still make this board work though. Put the diode right through the cut and bend the lead so that it lays on the right side of the track when you solder it in

    Or you can move the 47r and diodes over to the right one space

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  25. The top right cut is also differant?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, and I missed the previous correction too. Layout now corrected. Thanks for the heads up all

      Delete
  26. Hey all!
    What would adding a 500k dual Lin for the gain do to this? It's all I have! Thnx...

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  27. Or could I split it to two 100k Lin pots?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Personally I'd do the 2 x 100K lin pots. Using 500K would change the gain too much and it would sound a different pedal. Using two 100K lin pots allows you to alter the dirt and dry sides independently and so could offer some interesting new tones that you couldn't get out of an original Klon, whilst still having the original sounds available to you by just keeping them both at the same point of rotation throughout the sweep.

      Delete
  28. Awesome thnx Ivlark! As for wiring the two pots. Would I wire gain 1-1 to lug 1, gain 1-2 to lug 2 and so on?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yeap. just imagine that gain1 and gain2 are two different pots. go as it was gain pot and drive pot.

      Delete
  29. my take on the hypebox numero uno:

    http://s17.postimg.org/3sm2k52wv/IMG_0526.jpg
    http://s17.postimg.org/b7beciosf/IMG_0525.jpg

    not the best overdrive by far, but what a clean boost, wow, sweet bad mama!! jama :o
    25 bucks for a pedal going for 1500 pistoleros cant be bad either :)

    rockett pedals animal overdrive is the greatest there is ;)

    tagboard effects site is the best, and it has become alive again recetlyso kudos to those too!!

    ReplyDelete
  30. I'm getting ready to build this. I have a lot of tantalum 1uf's and was wondering if I could use them in there? If so, what as the polarity on them? Starting from right to left. Thnx so much everyone!!!

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  31. Also, is that a on/on switch? :)

    ReplyDelete
  32. Ok, figured out both of the above. Found Answers in post of other klon.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Hey everyone, I've never wired up a dpdt Ina stomp. Can anyone lead me in a good direction? Thnx!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. maybe this is what you looking for?
      i have no idea :)

      https://tagboardeffects.blogspot.se/2012/02/offboard-wiring.html

      Delete
  34. Hi,

    On the schematic there are two 47uF capacitor (c17, c18), and there's only one on the layout. Isn't it a problem?

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The layout uses a 100uf instead for extra power filtering.

      Delete
  35. Hey Mark,

    This one might be a stupid question, but is there an easy way to modify this layout for true bypass?

    Thanks,
    Almos

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes. Ignore the Sw1, Sw4, Output & Sw5 and Volume 2 & Sw6 wires completely. Omit the two 68K and the 100K resistors at the bottom left of the layout. Also ignore the stomp switch notes shown in the layout.

      You then wire up the stomp switch normally as shown in the offboard wiring layout. The green input wire to the circuit is self explanatory as per the offboard layout, the circuit output then goes directly from Volume 2 to the stomp.

      The LED+ wire can then go straight to the LED, with the other side going to the stomp for indication. Again as per the offboard wiring layout.

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    3. Hey Mark,

      Thanks for the layout and the short guide for tbp wiring, after correcting a few bugs it works fine. Since I can't a/b test it with the original I don't know if it's a problem or not, so here's a thing:

      With drive at min and max, it sounds pretty transparent, but in between it sounds a bit darker to my ears. Is it normal, or should I look after some kind of problem in the wiring?

      Thanks a lot again!

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  36. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  37. How would I test this circuit on the test box that is on the site?
    What would I do with the switch wires?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You would solder the buffered bypass switch to the ciruit and take the in/out lead to the test box.
      +m

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    2. Any alternative to 1N4742? I have BZV85C 12V zeners, how about these?

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    3. Any 12V zener will be fine.

      However. i'd also suggest taking 100-150R resistor in series with the supply wire. I recently repaired one KTR which had received 12V supply voltage - burning the zener and pump chip with it. One resistor in series with the supply will make the zener able to tame higher voltages and thus, protect the supply circuit way better than stock version.
      +m

      Delete
  38. Ok, thanks! Kiitän, näillä mennään!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Eipä kestä. Kannattaa lisätä se vastustus sinne sarjaan kuitenkin, varuiksi...

      Couldn't resist as it's not so common to see other finns here.
      +m

      Delete
  39. For the off board wires Labeled -- Vol2 & Sw6 -- is this technically 1 wire run to VOL2, then another wire run from VOL 2 to Switch position 6?

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  40. Is Gain 2 POT technically the Treble POT?

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  42. I'm getting the following voltages from the IC pins on my build:

    IC1
    4.8
    4.8
    0.8**
    0
    4.6
    4.8
    9.2**
    9.2

    IC2
    5
    4.8
    4.7
    -8.9
    4.7
    4.7
    4.7
    17

    IC3
    9.2
    4.6
    0
    -4.5
    -8.8
    5
    4.2
    9.2

    The pins marked ** are the trouble spots. The value at pin 3 is especially perplexing since the only thing between it and the +Vb (4.5V) is a 1M biasing resistor. I double checked the resistor and it does measure to be 1 MOhm.

    The pin 7 value is way too high. I first thought there may be a bridge somewhere between it and the next pin 8, but there is no continuity between the two so that's not it.

    Is the under voltage at pin 3 causing the overvoltage at pin 7? Any ideas where the trouble could be coming from?

    ReplyDelete
  43. It appears that IC1 is faulty. After swapping 1 and 2 the voltage problems followed the chip. I'm getting replacements today and will verify that the chip was the issue.

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  44. The IC was bad. All my voltages look good now!

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  45. Now that I've got a functioning pedal, I notice that if the Treble and Gain are both turned up I get a high pitched squeal, even if I hold the strings muted. If I back the gain down a bit I can leave the Treble full, or I can back off on the Treble and keep the Gain at full. Is this expected behavior?

    I'm thinking of changing the C14 cap to 6.8nF to allow more bass response. Not sure if that will alleviate the squeal though. Maybe increase R21 to tame the highs?

    Any thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Hi guys. I am having some troubles with this build and I hope that someone helps me out. I get no sound out of the pedal, only some weird oscillations.

    This are my measured voltages:

    (9.18 POWER SUPPLY)

    IC1
    9,17
    4,79
    0
    -3,71
    -7,45
    5,20
    4,64
    9,17

    IC2
    6,80
    7,25
    7,18
    -7,50
    7,24
    7,26
    7,50
    9,51

    IC3
    8,48
    8,48
    7,48
    7,79
    7,27
    7,45
    8,60
    0

    If you need some pictures of the build i can shoot some.

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  47. I've just started building this layout and have used multilayer monolithic caps for the 1uf caps. Will these be ok or should I replace them with 1uf electrolytic caps?

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  48. Any 1uf should be fine, but don't take me too seriously since I built it with electros and it doesn't works. I am still waiting someone who helps me out ...

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  49. Hi guys, I'm really struggling with this one. When I connect the power IC3 is getting really hot and I'm getting oscillating noises from the pedal. Any ideas why this is happening?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you using a 7660s? If you're using a 7660, you'll typically get oscillation and heat.

      Delete
  50. So I rebuilt the circuit as I found a couple of faults. I now get a full sound when the pedal is bypassed but only a very very weak/quiet signal when engaged. Any ideas?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. my voltages if this helps:
      IC1
      1: 4.72
      2: 4.72
      3: 3.62
      4: 0
      5: 9.43
      6: 4.72
      7: 4.72
      8: 4.71

      IC2
      1: 4.72
      2: 4.72
      3: 4.71
      4: -9.02
      5: 18.03
      6: 4.71
      7: 4.71
      8: 4.71

      IC3
      1: 9.43
      2: 4.75
      3: 0
      4: -4.45
      5: 9.43
      6: 7.22
      7: 4.66
      8: -9.02

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