Original info:
"The Space Spiral is a dark and dreamy modulated delay designed to take you across the highways of fantasy. While the delay may be designed around a “dawn of digital” echo processor, the sound is out of this world, man. If you are a fan of the dreary echoes produced by old oil can delays or the ethereal sound of a well-loved tape delay, the Space Spiral is totally going to tickle your tone bone.
The Space Spiral’s delay time ranges from a tight 30ms to a fast and loose 600ms."Schematic, pcb and info available on pedalpcb website here.
It should fit in a 125B size enclosure.
darn you! I'm a sucker for a modulated delay.. now I have to build this.
ReplyDeleteand I built it and love it....
DeleteThank You Alex! Sounds amazing! This is getting boxed for sure. Everything works as I expected. Thank you again for another great layout.
ReplyDeleteWow! That was quick! Thanks for verifying it!
DeleteWith Stay At Home restrictions here, it was a pleasant way to pass the time. Thanks again Alex!
ReplyDeleteIs the green LED a rate indicator LED? I’m not seeing it on the schematic
ReplyDeleteCheers!
Thanks Alex for another great project! Can’t wait to build this one. I hope the missing parts are going to arrive soon…
ReplyDeleteHere’s the BOM (I put a * next to some capacitors so you take the time to look at the vero before you choose what to use):
Resistor
-clr
-470
-1k 4x
-8k2
-10k 6x
-15k 2x
-18k
-22k 4x
-33k 2x
-47k 7x
-100k 2x
-1m 2x
Capacitor
-100pf
-1nf
-3n3
-4n7 2x
-10nf 2x*
-47nf
-100nf 3x*
-330nf
-1uf 8x (film not electrolytic)*
-10uf 2x
-47uf
-100uf 2x
Diode
-green led 5mm diff
-1n4148 2x
-1n5817
Voltage regulator
-78L05
Potentiometer
-B50k 4x
-A100K
-C1M
Chip
-pt2399
-LM324A
-LM833
-Tl072
I appreciate the BOM! you saved me from writing down every part and counting again and again. Thank you!
DeleteHello, this maybe is a beggienrs doubt, but may you can help me. How do I know which type of capacitor is used in this type of drawning?
ReplyDeleteBlues are electrolytic 😁
ReplyDeleteI’m going to start by saying I’m not an expert. Then I’m going to recommend you take a look at the components guide from this site, the part on capacitors is really helpful. Thank mirosol! https://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/p/components.html
ReplyDeleteNow to try to answer the question. The most important thing is the value. Then you need to check if there is a polarity indicator. If so, you are going to use electrolytic or tantalum, if you want to spend more. If they’re no polarity indicator, you need to consider the space available for the component. Always check if the designer specified a particular type of capacitors, people with more knowledge than me can have good reason to recommend a certain type.
For the 1uf capacitor, the reflex is to use electrolytic because they are small and cheap. But if you look at the vero, there is no polarity indicator and there’s not a lot of space. I went with polypropylene box film 100v. They don’t look like the picture, but I know they will fit and I already have them.
If you check the 10nf and the 100nf capacitors, you going to see 2 different sizes. You don’t have to get a capacitor that looks the same, but you need to get a capacitor that can fit. For all of those, I went with polyester film capacitors 100v. Same reason as before, I know they will fit and I already have them.
This is the first time I tried to give advice, so feel free to correct me or complete my answer, we are all here to learn!
I hope this help!
Can I use a TL074 in place of the LM324A?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/LM324-D.PDF
Deletehttps://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tl074.pdf (pinout is on page 8)
So yes. Should work fine.
+m
I think the 1u's are meant to be MLCC ceramics, but why? Seems odd.
ReplyDeleteWhy not? And even more importantly, why is that odd?
DeleteMultilayer ceramics are fine caps and fit in a lot smaller space than polyester boxes.
+m
This comment has been removed by the author.
Delete
DeleteI didn't mean that there was anything wrong with it, but I've not seen many layouts with 1u ceramics and definitely not in that volume, hence the "odd" comment. By saying, "why", was me genuinely being interested in why choices like that are made. You seem to think I was criticising it, but I promise you I was not.
As Miro has said it is for space reason. I wanted the layout to fit in a 125B box and I prefer to leave a "realistic" space between components. I think they look better once built. You can use any 1uF non-polarized capacitors if you want. Won't change the result.
DeleteThanks Alex.
DeleteCheers
Ben
sounds good but the delaysignal is little distorted,how can i decrease the delayinputsignal?
ReplyDeleteHi Alex, Just trying to understand the function of the LED in parallel with 100nF cap from pin 7 of the 2399 to ground. It is not shown on the schematic or is it shown on the data sheet for the 2399. Is it to reduce high-frequency noise? Just curious and want to understand.
ReplyDeleteAgain, thanks for the great layout. I really like the oil can delay effect you can dial in with this.
Hi,
DeleteIt might act as a crude limiter/clipper, in order to avoid hitting the PT2399 too strongly (I have seen this on other PT2399 delays, but i haven't checked if the pin is the same).
Any way to put in a switch to turn the modulation on and of? Or does this require a different layout?
ReplyDeleteThnx for the wonderfull job btw ;)
Try to replace the link between Time 1 & Depth 2 with a switch.
DeleteIs there a way to wire up a momentary "slam" footswitch to make it self oscillate.
ReplyDeleteYou could put in a spst momentary footswitch bridging the connections 2 and 3 of the repeats pot to momentarily have the repeats pot wide open causing self oscillation
DeleteEasy enough, thanks! I'm bored so I'm gonna make a super delay with this, the Keeley Mag Echo, and an EP boost circuit. Hopefully it all works out.
DeleteJust finished this and whilst all controls are working the repeats are distorted. I can see the signal is clipping the LED limiter, which is actually lighting up, but I've checked all connections and components and I can't find the problem. Any Ideas?
ReplyDeleteBen, I had the same issue earlier today. All knobs working but distorted feedbacks which got worse with each successive feedback. I first tried swapping out chips which didn’t work. I resolved it by redrilling All the cuts and rescoring the tracks with a blade. Now my repeats are loud and clear. Must have been a tiny bridge somewhere.
ReplyDeleteI spoke too soon. I played a little more tonight and have additional problems. Although the distorted feedback problem is fixed, I noticed that as I turn my feedback pot to the point where it would be around oscillation, the feedbacks don’t get more intense, it just brings in a lot of white noise that gets more intense the more I turn it up. Also each feedback seems to get higher pitched which doesn’t seem normal.
DeleteMy other issue is I’m also hearing the rate pot bleeding a ticking noise through when the strings are muted.
Anybody have any ideas?
Thanks, I haven't actually sorted this out yet, but if i find anything eluding to the noise problem i'll let you know.
DeleteI had exactly the same issue, distorted repeats and loads of noise. After ages troubleshooting it, I had to turn to the Dark Rift schematic. I noticed there were some slight differences compared to Alex's build (which is great and seems to work for quite a few people). The main differences are:
Delete- the 47nf capacitor on the right of the LM324A should be a 10nf capacitor and connected between pins 8 and 9 of the IC, not pins 8 and 10.
- The 4.7nf capacitor on the right of the LM833 should be up on the right of the PT2399 connecting the two 10k and 4.7nf capacitor to ground (you can solder to the leg of one of the 10k resistors and link it to the ground row just above it)
- Two additional 100nf capacitors are present in the schematic before and after the 78L05. One running from the input to ground and one running from the output to ground. I'm not sure how much difference these make, maybe just ripple removal from the power supply. You can easily squeeze these in.
Here are the links to the annotated schematic and build to highlight the differences and where to squeeze the components in. These changes seem to work for me, hope it fixes it for you!
https://imgur.com/7KH4Vdc
https://imgur.com/rmsahYf
Cheers,
Wayne
That's awesome, thanks Wayne! Looking forward to trying that out.
DeleteCheers
Ben
Just incase this is still an issue (or in case anyone else scans the comments looking for suggestions for LFO ticking) I just 1) made sure that my board ground and my switch ground wires were connected right at the DC jack Ground (had switch ground running to thee board which made the tick very loud) and 2) threw in an input buffer. It's no longer true bypass (which is fine for me because I need a buffer at the end of my chain anyways) but the pedal is dead silent.
DeleteCheers,
Does anyone have a schematic for this?
ReplyDeleteHere https://www.pedalpcb.com/docs/DarkRiftDelay.pdf
DeleteHello, I am new here and I have a question about the pcb on the right. I don't understand what those red squares and black lines mean, sometimes there are also celestial dots on the black lines. What does that all mean?
ReplyDeletegreetings from Argentina!
MauriD the celestial dots on the black lines represents where two links share a hole.
DeleteRed dots are cuts you need to put into the copper tracks, black lines are links you need to make between tracks (with wire).
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteFirst thanks for your awesome work this website is a gem.
My build is ok except for the repetition pot. When at 0 I have a sigle nice repetition but as soon as turn it clockwise I hear like white noise modulated by the LFO. There must be something wrong with my feedback loop. I was wondering why it contains two 1N4148 diodes since a single one can take continuous 300 mA.
I keep debugging and will post if it can help anyone.
Greetings from France
Found it !
DeleteDo not use TL072 if you don't have LM833 you will have noise in the repetitions. I found a LM833 in my graveyard and it works perfectly.
I also used a TL074 instead of LM324A and it seems to work fine.
what may I use when I have no LM833 ??I have only LM833N ...and I have noise ...
DeleteHere's my Space Spiral build. I'm calling it Wormhole (thanks to DS9)
ReplyDeleteI added momentary switches for Repeats and Rate.
Demo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AieDI2D2VZs
Build - https://imgur.com/a/93LmKDY
Thanks for the solid layout Alex!
Sweet build! How did you go about wiring those momentary switches into the circuit?
DeleteHi, sorry for the stupid question, I'm new to this.
ReplyDeleteWhat does the red boxes in the schematic mean?
Is it to block the patch?
Thanks!
These are cuts in the copper. Take a small drill bit and gently turn until you can see the white of the vero and no copper links between. Alternatively you can use a knife but it's less reliable
DeleteGreat pedal! Took lots of troubleshooting (culprits were mostly links) but sounding sweet! Cheers for this.
ReplyDeleteI added a momentary switch across the repeat pot for infinite repeats which I can 100% recommend
How did you wire the momentary?
DeleteWire up a momentary SPST footswitch bridging lugs 2 and 3 of the repeats pot
DeleteBuilt this but I also have the problem where if I increase the repeats, I get white noise and the clipping LED lights up. Everything else seems to work though. Any idea where to start looking? I did a quick check for accidental bridges. I used a LM833N and LM324N instead of an LM833/LM324A - would that be a problem?
ReplyDeleteDone. Did this with a Mag Echo and an EP preamp in one box. Put a momentary footswitch on the repeats. Offboard wiring was a bit of a pain but worth it in the end.
ReplyDeleteHello, I have a stupid beginner question, what is the green hole on the upper left corner jumper?
ReplyDeleteI checked the schematic guide, but this is not explained there.
Thank you!
It means that it is dual (you have to put two wires into this hole). I hope that makes sense.
DeleteThank you! So it means connecting pin1 and pin2 of TL072 then to the 1u capacitor?
DeleteIt means connecting both line A and line C to lineB
ReplyDeleteThank you! I got it!
Delete;)
DeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteGreat build as always, Thanks a lot.
Came into some trouble with the LM833,
With an LM833P I get distorted repeats, and with a LM833N I get clean repeats but oscillating noise from the mod circuit.
What suffix of the chip are people using? IF any?
And if just using a LM833, where are you sourcing it from?
Thanks
AHA, no I just had a dodgy 2399, noise all sorted now when using a N suffix, realised after posting that there isn't just a 833 without a suffix
DeleteWonderful build. I added a Rate LED on pin 7 of the LM324 simply because it was easy to do, just a wire on the last hole on the left side (under the shape wires) hook it to the anode leg on the led, cathode leg to ground ... it blinks with the rate and shape pots.. nice touch.
ReplyDeleteNice, great addition to the pedal
DeleteThanks for that
Have a request, was hoping one of you amazing people on here could help with.
ReplyDeleteI can't seem to find a point where I could add a dry kill switch, anyone have any ideas? Would be greatly appreciated
Just do it from the output. As well as going to the output socket, daisy chain another wire to one side of a momentary switch with the other side of the switch going to ground. Then every time you flick the switch the entire signal will be dumped to ground.
DeleteThanks for your reply.
DeleteDo you mean the output of the tl072?
Was thinking as the dry signal goes to pin 5 to put a switch to ground there?
Thanks in advance for helping the noobiness that is me
Worked it out, finally.
DeleteYou basically add a switch after the 22k resistor (R18) simple really, just didn't know where the schematic was, but read through all the comments and found it.
Helo! So... For adding a kill dry switch i have o add an ON Off switch after the 22k resistor that goes from pin 5 of the TL072, right?
DeleteHey yall, built the layout and I am getting a very nice sounding delay, but the signal is ALOT lower than my "straight into the amp" signal. Anyone else experiencing this?
ReplyDeleteAnyone getting LFO ticking from this circuit? I swear I didn't hear it when I built it, but now that I've cased it up I have LFO ticking (I can even hear it tick in bypass). Sounds great otherwise.
ReplyDeleteI had the same problem with a CE-2 build. I took the board back out and did a listening test while moving the pots and wires around. I got ticking whenever the input wire or jack was anywhere close to the LFO-chip, the rate pot, or it's wires.
DeleteI solved it by moving the rate pot to the hole in the enclosure furthest away from the input, turning the board 180 degrees so the LFO-chip was facing away from the input jack and towards the top of the enclosure instead of facing the bottom close to the input jack and footswitch, and making sure the input wires were as far away from the LFO-chip and rate pot as possible.
Bolsyo,thanks for the tip! I pulled the circuit and pots out of the enclosure and tried "moving the antennas around" but ticking persisted. Oddly enough, if I run a buffer before the pedal, the ticking is reduced substantially, but it's not completely gone. I did the infinite repeats and modulation max speed mods, so I'm starting to wonder if it's some kind of grounding or impedance issue.
Delete*mods on footswitch with accompanying LED's.
DeleteI found that using shielded input and output wire from the jacks solved my LFO ticking issue.
DeleteIf anyone has any advice on modding this circuit to include a tails mode (which, given the PT2399, can be noisy) I would really appreciate it. I found a schematic for a jfet buffer and DPDT switch but am having a really hard time figuring out where in the circuit to attach the leads. Have been over the pedalpcb schematic for the dark rift multiple times and can't seem to figure out where the delay decoupling capacitor is.
ReplyDeleteHey guys! I can't get the modulation to work. Depth/shape and rate ain't working properly. When I turn the potentiometer I hear the pitch drop (or raise) but when I leave the potentiometer in position it stops affecting the delay. I've used an LM324N IC instead of LM324A, could this be the source of the problem? Hope you guys can help me out!
ReplyDeleteNvm it's working! :) Don't know what I did, decided to slice a knife through the row once more, maybe that did it. Sounds great! It's a bit noisy on the repeats but I think that's the PT2399 IC. It's that noisy in all of my PT2399 builds
DeleteHello, what do you mean with the clr resistor? Is it empty?
ReplyDeleteIt's a current limiting resistor for the On/Off LED and thus it's value depends on what led you use. 2.2K is usually a good value, maybe a bit bright, go with a higher value if you want less light.
DeleteHey, to all that added a momentary switch for infinite repeats, would you mind sharing what you used? Normally open, closed...? Cheers.
ReplyDeletenormally open
DeleteHey, to all that added a momentary switch for infinite repeats, would you mind sharing which one you used? Not sure if I have to pick a normally closed, or normally open one. Cheers!
ReplyDeleteshouldn't the diodes be anti-parallel?
ReplyDeleteYes, they should.
DeleteHi guys.
ReplyDeleteAfter ages troubleshooting this built I decided to post this comment just to condense all the information from various comment and from what I found and help anyone else save their time and multiple headache.
So, First of all thanks to @wayre13 for finding the 2 misplaced caps and the missing filter on the side of the 78L05 (that 2 caps really helped to stabilize the supply).
also refer to the schematics on his comment to have the right pinout of the opamps used as it is different from the dark rift schematic.
I also found some problems, pin 5 of the Pt2399 should be left free, not dragged to ground, it's a digital output for external use so there is no need to connect it anywhere (in my case without removing routes i just bent the pin over the chip, raw but it work) this point reduced noise on the repeat (weird) and made the whole thing more stable.
The cap at pin 9/10 is extremely sensitive (for who had distorted delay or single repeat) Make sure the cap work, it's a good quality one and try to change it if you don't find any other solution.
I increased it to 470nf and it works way better imho. (if you don't want to change the value of it just please check it, it gave me an insane head ache bcause even with the multimeter everything looked ok but once canged the problem of noisy repeat was sorted).
Another thing is that the ground of pin 3/4 of the pt2399 should be a thick connection right off the chip so just solder the pin together (I did't test the change but the datasheet and any website call for it).
Lastly, for who added a feedback toggle pushbutton: the general idea is to go with a pushbutton creating a short between pin 2 and 3 of the repeat potentiometer, in my opinion try to put a resistor (more of this later)in series to the toggle pushbutton, not a plain short circuit. With the Potentiometer repeat at maximum the feedback of the pedal is almost unusable musically or at least extremely muddy in most settings (only my opinion), so what I did was to find the perfect spot for a musical maximum feedback, removed the pot and measure that resistance value between pin 2 and 3, and at this point with this information placed a resistor in series with the pushbutton of that value or something similar ( remember that the toggle resistor will be in paralle with whatever res value you actually have between pin 2 and 3). that make so that when you push this feedback toggle the whole system yes resonate but not to max level making it way more usable and musical.
and with this,
Have a good one.
stay safe.
Gabriele
Ps. YES, the diode should be in anti-parallel. the layout is wrong.
Gabriele, the sound of the pedal with this mods is good now? Im thinking of making this pedal but Im afraid of the problems on this schematic...
DeletePin 5 isn't dragged to ground though, it is isolated between 2 cuts.
DeleteGabriele, the sound of the pedal with this mods is good now? Im thinking of making this pedal but Im afraid of the problems on this schematic...
ReplyDeleteHey! Does LM324N would work instead of the LM324A?
ReplyDeletei have finish and sound great but my problem is popping when engaged i have notice that when engaged it boost, and following the addition of 100nf and diodes not parallel.
ReplyDelete