What can I say about the Laney Supergroup. The supergroup was based on the same Fender Bassman architecture just like the Marshall JCM800, Sunn Model T, Mesa Dual Rectifier, and a whole host of other legendary Rock, Hard Rock, and Metal amplifiers. One of the best descriptions I've ever heard of the Supergroup is that it's like a Marshall JCM800 with more balls and gain. It's just an all around badass heavy amp. And for all my lovers of tall things heavy it was used by the legendary Tony Iommi for years, and Laney even went through the trouble of recreating it to reissue it as a special signature amp for Iommi.
Both Channels with a selector switch
Separate Inputs
Both Channels running together (jumping channels)
Treble Channel
Bass Channel
Lovin' these pre-amp posts! <3 u Zach.
ReplyDeleteHaha. Thanks man. This one was stupid easy cause it's the same as ones that we already have, so it was a simple modification of values. Really it should be verified, but I want to make sure that someone builds it and it sounds right. I do have a schematic for a preamp conversation for this with the inverter, but it's gonna take some time to complete.
DeleteI currently use a 1968 shed-built Laney LA100BL and I've owned Supergroups and Klipps. These amps are in my opinion the very best of the era. Absolutely crush Marshals and Hiwatts of the same era. Thanks for making the layout!
ReplyDeleteI'm looking to build up a Laney LA100BL clone. What voltage are you running the plates??
DeleteWhat type of DPDT on/on/on, type 1 or 2?
ReplyDeleteyou could leave out vero 3 and make the DPDT in vero 1 a DP3T ON-ON-ON like this:
ReplyDelete123
456
1 NC
2 INPUT
3 Treble
4 BASS
5 Connect to 2
6 NC
Tankyou!!!
ReplyDeletePS Isn't layout 1 an overkill? The only difference between both channels is the 220p cap... Why not make that switchable with a spdt and save a lot of space?
ReplyDeleteNot really. The idea of the 1st layout, just like on the model t preamp, is that you can select either channels or run them both at the same time. Putting a 220pF cap on a switch to select between either having the bass channel or the treble channel does not accomplish the same goal.
DeleteAny chance of a schematic for this?
ReplyDeleteI found
ReplyDeletehttp://drtube.com/schematics/laney/Super_Group_100_Mk1_preamp.pdf
Q1-Q4 Voltages?
ReplyDeletethe usual half the supply voltage, so if you're running 9V then bias the FETs to 4.5-5V.
DeleteUsing the trim pots I can those voltages on q1-q3 but q4 drain i get 9volts
ReplyDeletethat's supposed to happen. there's no trimmer for Q4, as it gets full voltage. you'll only be able to adjust Q1-Q3.
DeleteThanks Zach.
ReplyDeleteWhat project! I really can't test it in the next months. :-(
ReplyDeleteWaiting for verifying.
Thanks guys!
Anyone hav any actual clips of the emulator pedal and not the Laney amp itself?!?? I'd hate to waste my time on something that in the end....sucks!
ReplyDeletewell since it's not verified the answer is no. since it's similar in nature to the model t preamp, which sounds like the actual, i would say it's safe to assume this will sound like the amp as well.
DeleteBuilt the first layout, with the channel switch, fired right up. Sounds amazing, pretty similar to the first video up there (at least to my ears)
ReplyDeleteThanks Kevin!
ReplyDeleteI would to know how it works, exactly, the version you built, the first layout.
Just one input and three "channels" (on/on/on switch so... three way). It has a shared EQ but two separate gain pots. With the switch setted on the center position you can drive both the gain pots? What is the kind of sound? More gain?
Yup, one input, the dpdt on/on/on switches channels, on the middle position would be the bridged channel. I find myself running it in the bridged position the most. It's pretty high gain, like the description says, it's like a jcm800 with more balls and gain. My only problem with it is the treble EQ control, gets very ice picky of you turn it up, but it was like that for my model t build from here. Definitely worth a build IMO
DeleteEdit: just plugged it in again, and I wouldn't say ice picky about the treble. It got that was with my red rooster so to be clear the treble control is fine! My mistake :)
Deletecheers man for the verification. i was going to say theres no way this should be ice picky, i mean iommi used this amp and used a treble booster to brighten it a bit. lol
DeleteI'll say my build is kind of ice-picky, but I also had to sub a 50k pot for the mids so I'm sure that's done me in
DeleteDo you have the schematic for this??
ReplyDeleteFinished a build of this (jumpered channels) today, sounds awesome! Really responsive to dynamics, different guitars/pickups, etc., and it sounds killer with a boost out front!
ReplyDeleteI guess that means it's verified!
Just a heads up to y'all, the 100k trimmers are super touchy, so its a patient affair to get shit biased right.
Thank you, Colin!
DeleteI still didn't look inside the schematic, but do someone think that there's some better adjustable value of that trimmer? Or any other easy method to adjust it?
Thanks!
You should be able to do it with 20k like the model t layout. Keep in mind that higher voltage will need a larger value trimmer.
DeleteThank you, Zach. Then maybe an intermediate value like a 50k could be a good choice?
DeleteGive it a shot.
DeleteJust built (both channels, selector switch version). Sounds great! As Colin stated above, the 100k trimmers are super touchy. It took a bit to get it biased just right, but afterwards, this pedal sounds great.
ReplyDeleteI socketed the two 25uF caps in case I want to go back and get the pedal closer to the Sunn Model T sound (which uses 250uF caps).
I'm boxing it up this week and will post a vid demo asap. Thank you for the layout, Zach!
Cool! Finally looking forward to hearing how this things sounds!!
DeleteA couple things in regard to this layout...
ReplyDeleteIf it's supposed to mimic the SuperGroup, I see a couple problems!
1. the input resistor is 68k, but should be 34k as the two on the original amp are 68k's in parallel (correct me if I'm wrong), just like on a Plexi.
2. For some reason someone added 220p caps to the input grid (or Gate) of the 1st and second gain stages! Why??
3. The layout has a 220p across the 470k resistor. The original valud is a 270p, not 220p.
4. Lastly, the original amp is very loosy-goosy. This layout shows 25uF electrolytic cap, but the original uses 16uF, so maybe this should be lowered also!
My $0.02. Let me know if any comments about the above.
hey man. i'll address all your comments in the same order.
Delete1.the supergroup, as well as marshall plexi, sunn model t, and many other amps are based on the fender bassman. the two inputs are not parallel because they are 2 separate inputs, as such the input resistor is 68k.
2. the 220pF caps are there to help the FET better emulate a tube. read this "http://www.runoffgroove.com/fetzervalve.html" to get an understanding.
3. according to the schematic i have the cap is 220pF. i'm sure over the years there have been variations in some of the values, and i'm sure either are correct.
4. as above. according to the schematic i have those caps are 25uF not 16uF. while i know there are variations over the years of an amps production i highly doubt it was 16uF.
Hi! I want to use this preamp before a headphone amp, and to feed it fx pedals. I'm using a simple lm386 based headphone amp, do I just plug the output of the preamp to the amp, or do I need to take any special attention to something? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteI did something similar, but used the ROG Tonemender. I ran that into the ROG ruby (I omitted the gain) with no issues. So at best guess I would say yes, output of Laney to input of headphone amp.
DeleteHi Andrew, thanks for the reply! I tried this, but I don't get much volume out of the ruby and the preamp makes it clip in a nasty way. Did you experience the same issue?
DeleteApologies for the late response on the video. I just got around to boxing this thing up. First and foremost, a huge THANK YOU to Zach. These preamp circuits are incredible. Nice work, mate.
ReplyDeleteIf you're a solid state amp user (like me, Roland JC-120), you'll find this Laney preamp a welcome addition to your sonic toolkit. It sounds incredible. To hear my amp break up, and with so much punch, was a revelation. It is indeed tube-like.
Here's a very quickie vid I posted to instagram. It doesn't do the sound justice, so I'll throw together a proper vid asap.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BpfFlVNl6HY/?taken-by=nealgardner
Demo here:
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/GyunFwacU3E
Jfet need to be match or not...sory newbie here...
ReplyDeleteNope, just adjust bias on trimmers.
DeleteOne more vid. This preamp is the gift that keeps on giving.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.instagram.com/p/Bp3Ea3dldxQ/
Thanks, man! Definitely a pedal to build!
DeleteJust an idea - perhaps to make biasing accurately easier you could add say a 10K resistor from the 9V to a rail feeding the bias pots - then maybe you could use 20-25K pots? I don't know where the sweet spot is but I doubt you would need less than 10K to bias the 201s.
ReplyDeleteJust an idea - trying to help!
Could I just turn down the gain pots to "switch" between channels on the jumped version?
ReplyDeleteHey Zach, thanks gain for the layouts, I really dig this preamp serie !
ReplyDeleteI put one of these Supergroups in a homemade 8" combo in front of a TI class D poweramp, powered with a 12v battery so I can drag it around the workbench. Then I did the same project in stompbox format with a 24v PSU to bring as a backup to shows :)
https://imgur.com/a/7rAnNGA
nice work there
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletecould i build this like a combo amp? of course using a separated power and why these have many schematic? this pre amp use only transistor? sorry for all questions
ReplyDeleteWell i build this, sounds great but i have a couple of issues going on. Vol pot its not responding well, nothing changes. Also, if i turn the bass gain to 0. Kills the output completely even when im ussing the treble channel only.
ReplyDeleteBuilt this and its mint, better than the Bassman 5F6
ReplyDeleteBuilt this and it sounded great when it was guitar into pedal into amp. When I put it on my pedalboard after the distortion and overdrive pedals, output and gain dropped massively. Could not figure out what was going on. The problem ended up being the Boss DS-2 right before it. Once that was out of the chain, it was back to normal. So if yours is sounding wimpy, that might be it.
ReplyDeleteAlso, mine sounded best right after a buffer. Since I didn't have one where I wanted to put this, I ended up building a JHS Little Black Buffer and throwing that in the same enclosure wired to the input jack and out to the 3PDT. Done and done.