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Friday, 28 October 2016

Paia 5730 Gator

Here is a great sounding Attack Delay / Noise Gate / Swell pedal.
I've used a more common LM13700 instead of LM3080.
You can find original project and scheamtic here.
I could not find any videos for this effect but there are some sound samples available here.
The original effect uses a momentary SPST footswitch.
I've also added an unverified true bypass version.
If you don't want the External Trigger just remove it and connect Thresh 1 to LM308 pin 2.




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27 comments:

  1. nocentelli29 October 2016 at 20:17

    Thanks for the layout, could you summarise the changes you made to convert it to 13700 from 3080?

    Also, the first layout has the 10M-to-ground bias resistor connected to pin 4 rather than +ve input pin 3.

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    1. plush29 October 2016 at 22:41

      13700 is actually two 3080 in one casing
      There is a conversion board for those pedals that are build around 3080 since those chips are really hard to find http://effectslayouts.blogspot.ru/2015/11/lm13700-to-ca3080-conversion-board.хтмл

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    2. Alex30 October 2016 at 10:07

      Well spotted! It has been corrected.

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    3. Alex3 November 2016 at 10:41

      I've done this:
      LM3080 LM13700
      Pin 2 -> Pin 4
      Pin 3 -> Pin 3
      Pin 5 -> Pin 1
      Pin 4 -> Pin 6
      Pin 7 -> Pin 11
      I didn't use Diode Bias, Buffer In and Buffer Out.

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  2. PauLuzz31 October 2016 at 13:06

    Built the true bypass version yesterday. I am only getting sound when I jumper the 9V strip to pin 9 of the TL074, like hardwiring the switch in the original version. No swells though. I substituted the LM308 for a TL061 and the volume and threshold pots for 500kA because that's what I had on hand. I knifed the gaps, but haven't taken the time for a thorough component/placement check yet. I will try to post some voltages later today...

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    1. Alex1 November 2016 at 09:36

      I think with TL061 you need to remove the 33p cap between pins 1 & 8.

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    2. PauLuzz2 November 2016 at 19:37

      Yeah, I forgot to say I already omitted the 33p. What I also did was wrongly place the 100n cap coming from the threshold pot, ahem. Once I fixed that there were swells abound :). I would consider this verified. I have to order some A250k pots though, the interaction between knobs is very weird now. It also seems the volume pot would work better with a linear sweep.
      Thanks for the layout!!

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    3. PauLuzz3 November 2016 at 08:21

      Oh, and just to clarify: I built the true bypass version without external trigger...

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    4. Alex3 November 2016 at 10:35

      Well done Paul! Schematic didn't mention Log or Linear. Did you add 9V to pin 9?
      How does the pedal sound?

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    5. PauLuzz4 November 2016 at 17:48

      Like commented below I also left out the 9V to pin 9, it bypasses the effect. The effect sounds good, you have to adjust your playing to it a bit but there's a good range on the attack delay. The only thing I changed was the threshold pot, I ended up using a 50k. I think they used a large value to handle external signals but for my G&L tele with single coils it was only usable fully CCW.

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    6. Veit7 November 2016 at 13:53

      Hi Paul, can you please explain what the external trigger is for and how you built it without the trigger jack?! I assume you just omitted the wires `Trigger Jack "C" and "S", but what about the wire that goes from `Trigger Jack "T" to Tresh 1? Thanks for that.

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    7. Alex7 November 2016 at 14:29

      It's another input to the effect to control the gating.
      You can get all info from their original manual:
      http://paia.com/manuals/docs/5730pages_200.pdf
      The way to remove it is already explained in the introduction: don't connect the Trigger Jack and just connect Thresh 1 to where it says Trigger Jack "C" on the board.

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  3. Bobbass4k3 November 2016 at 23:56

    Built the True Bypass Version, the second 1µF in the series pair to make 500nF in the bottom left is the wrong way round, flip it round and it's verified. I tried a 470nF and I can't say I noticed any difference, so I'd say that's an option too.

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    1. Alex4 November 2016 at 09:40

      Cool. I'll change that. Did you connect TL074 pin 9 to +9V? How does it sound?

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    2. Bobbass4k4 November 2016 at 10:38

      Haven't tried that yet, as far as I can see on the schem isn't that effectively just a bypass for the swells?

      It's pretty good, there's a bit of a noise floor when the gate is closed, but the LM308N I ordered in looks like a counterfeit, so it could be that, I'll get the LM308 out of my Rat tonight and give it another go. On longer swell times there can be some artefacts/distortion as it slowly crosses the threshold, but that's to be expected. 250KA for the volume doesn't seem like a great choice either, I'll try some others out tonight and report back.

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    3. Bobbass4k6 November 2016 at 11:57

      100kB makes a better choice for level I think, and the noise floor was down down to the dodgy LM308, with the good one from my Rat it's quiet as a mouse. If you want longer fade in times, just up the value of the attack pot, 1M gives you a good 5 or 6 seconds before the fade in even starts.

      Very good effect, much more consistent than the slow gear, and an easier build (In my slow gear all the transistors in the envelope detector circuit had to be matched, and even then it was temperamental)

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  4. Bobbass4k10 November 2016 at 12:55

    Just FYI, the 1µF caps in the bottom left of the layout still aren't in series, the bottom one of the pair needs flipping around to make it verified.

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    1. Alex10 November 2016 at 15:27

      Hi Robert.
      The way they are they should give a 500nF NP capacitor.
      Shouldn't they?

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  5. Sloup20 November 2016 at 17:25

    Hi, just built the true bypass version. As mentioned above, the lower 1uF cap of the left-bottom pair is flipped (wrong polarity). I used TL061 with omited 33p cap instead of TL308 and 100kB pot for level and it works like a charm.

    It's very unusual effect. With longer attack and with long-feedback delay after, it works incredibly for "Frippertronics" sounds. With shorter attack, it gives bowed "cello" sounds.

    Thanks for the layout... Some pics;

    http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/Sloup/media/DSCN4033_zps25srogch.jpg.html
    http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/Sloup/media/DSCN4036_zpsnqkgw34s.jpg.html

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  6. Travis20 November 2016 at 19:28

    If you put two electrolytics back to back in series they act as a non polarized capacitor as Alex pointed out above. The capacitor is not backwards, it acts as a non polarized 500nf

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  7. JSB16 June 2017 at 22:00

    Hi. I only have a stereo switched jack and was wondering if the trigger jack "C" goes with the tip or the sleeve? I assume the tip but want to be sure. Also has anyone used an NE5534 in place of the lm308? Is there anything I need to know if I use the NE5534?
    Thanks!

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  8. FXS11 July 2017 at 13:10

    Hi to everyone. I built this today and its very cool.
    But with my low output Pickups on my main guitar the threshold is too high, it cuts off way too quick after the gate opens (During the decay of the note).
    I'm thinking of putting a boost in front of it (better even a compressor, but thats tough in one enclosure).
    Do you know of any mods that would change the threshold?
    Thanks everyone, and thanks for the awesome layout!!!

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  9. riccardo3 May 2019 at 15:36

    hi! Sorry for the noob question, what is the "clr" resistor in the true bypass layout?

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    1. GaryG9 May 2019 at 09:08

      Current Limiting Resistor. Limits the current flowing through the LED so it doesn't pop.

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  10. Ellibert15 May 2019 at 15:16

    If I were to replace the attack pot with one of a much higher value would I be able to achieve especially long swells? Or would that require redesigning the whole circuit?

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  11. pk14 June 2020 at 17:13

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOfJGqzyeZ8

    pumped in a demo video just now

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