Here's a collection of vero (stripboard) and tagboard guitar and bass effect layouts that we have put together covering many classic and popular effects in growing numbers. Many of these have been posted on freestompboxes.org, so check that site out for great discussions on building your own effect pedals. Enjoy the builds and please also visit us on Facebook and Twitter
Dude I'm so glad someone built this, I was the one who requested it, and then found out I owed University another $550USD so my plans for building it got shot down for a little while. I'm so damned pumped to build this pedal. It basically creates in a single box what I go for a lot with my setup! Thanks Alex!!!
But I have two noob-questions: 1) Whats up with the 32nf cap on the left of the pt2399? I tried to find one but failed. Does this value even exist or can I put 33nf in it's place? Or is it maybe 3,2nf?!
2) Can I put any Op-Amp in MC31172s place? Does a workalike exist? Or DO those alternatives named above work without any changing of other parts?
Thanks a lot for all the replies! I'll try it with a 33nf and a tl072, like in sonus build. Maybe one day I'll find a MC31172 and swap the tl072 out for testing, if my build works.
I think I'll build it with the switchable 9v/18v charge pump. Just in case any ticking accrues.. and to see how the sound changes.
Here is a hint if you ever have a hard time reading component values on these layouts. Use the ZOOM function on your browser. These images scale up just fine with no distortion and you can see everything.
Thanks Paul, but the yellow cap I asked for shows indeed the 32nf. There was no problem on my side, only a little confusion which cap I asked for. I wasn't shure weather there was a 32nf cap in existence because I couldn't find one so I asked if it's replaceable. But thank you nonetheless!
Components values should be correct. The layout has already been verified by SonusFluxa in the Forum section (He also recorded an audio demo). 33n caps should be fine..
Hey Sonus, does your build have any ticking noises with the Fuzz up? I read from the original schematic poster that his had wicked Ticking and he ended up building a charge pump for the 2206 to kick it.. Just curious
I really like this, is sounds different enough to other delays I have that I might build it as well. Am I correct in thinking that adding tap tempo functionality would be a big project? What about an effects loop in the feedback circuit? Many thanks.
Would adding an effects loop in the circuit allow you to run effects that would be increased with each delay? For example, if an octave pedal was placed in the loop would the signal go up/down an octave with each delay? I would like to do this as well.
I am also trying to work out if the fuzz can be used only in the feedback loop, so the original signal is left untouched but the repeats become progressively fuzzier. Either way, I wasn't looking for a delay pedal but heard this and instantly decided to build it.
I had someone asking me about building this a few weeks ago so I took apart my Echo Dream 2 to figure out the components. Upon looking up the modulation chip I found the suggested layout for the chip. In case anyone wants to change their design for a little more versatility: http://www.guideic.com/Resources/KeyImg/XR-2206CP.gif
Tayda has a XR2206CP: http://www.taydaelectronics.com/xr-2206-xr2206cp-xr2206-monolithic-function-generator-ic.html I haven't figured out what those letter codes mean (is there any system behind it?) - can this one be used?
usually the suffix is just a designation by the company and nothing more. for instance the TL071 you can find TL071cn, TL071cp, etc. they're all the same IC.
Would someone with a working one who can run it off 18V be so gracious as to give me their current draw? Mine is driving me nuts, the charge pump gives 18V with no load but as soon as I connect it to the circuit it drops to about 8V, so it's acting like the charge pump can't give the circuit enough current but I'm reading 16mA, which seems about right to me? Been through it with a fine toothcomb for shorts/opens/lifted grounds etc., nothing.
I should really learn not to try and do maths at 1am, and stick to Ockam's razor... actual current draw is about 50mA, so the circuit was indeed screaming for current. Rather than mess around trying to get 50mA out of a 555 charge pump I've frankensteined it so the 18V is only switched on to the 2206, also means I don't risk melting the 78l05.
Out of interest, how has everyone else found the modulation? I've only been arsing around with 18V because the modulation was barely noticeable on 9V, which is unsurprising considering the 2206 datasheet says it needs 12V to run properly. Has everyone else found it runs OK on 9V or this another case of DBA's "screw it, close enough" design philosophy?
Also, curious... did you all lay out the pots in the same general layout as the original? Does knob size make a difference in regard to ratio when you turn it?
Since this is on vero and not a PCB with board mounted pots you can put the pots and switches wherever you please really. The knob size doesn't make a difference because the pot whiper is connected to the pot, so there's no gears or anything to alter the ratio.
unfortunately not really for this specifically. you can find generic drill templates online, but not build specific for this. if you look at the build gallery (show your pedal guts) in the open chat of the forum and you'll see a lot of builds from the guys in the community, myself included, and we either make our own like me, or use the generic ones and put the pots and switches in the best places.
you can make it fit in a 1590bb, but you're going to have to lay things out so that things fit nicely without grounding out.
Doesn't knob size always affect the ratio? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the question. You get more control over fine grained movement with a larger knob. So theres a larger distance to resistance change ratio with a larger knob. Not that it matters too much though. More personal preference.
This could fit in a 1590BB depending on how you lay out the hardware.
Not trying to be rude here, but it sounds like you should try some simpler builds before you dive in with this one. Maybe something simple with a couple pots and a toggle switch so you can see how everything goes together
I do plan on doing two more builds before doing this one. I've already done one, wanted to get a few more under my belt before doing this. Just planning ahead.
I just realized I have a 1590BBM, so I think that'll cut it. Thanks.
Can you post some clips or pics of your build? I wanna see some proof of this one before jumping into this massive build. Too many failed DBA builds from this site
Hi all. If I want to get 18v out of this but operate it on a 9v adapter I would have to put in a 7660s or similar daughter board correct? Also. Would it operate any better on 18v?
I can't tell you if it will operate better at 18V, but if you want 18V, but have/use a 9V then just use the voltage doubler board. You can even make it switchable between 9V & 18V, there's a couple layouts for it on the main site.
Hi all. If I want to get 18v out of this but operate it on a 9v adapter I would have to put in a 7660s or similar daughter board correct? Also. Would it operate any better on 18v?
i need help! :/ well i have to say that the pedal is perfect... but i have some problems that i cant solve :/ first of all i have some cracking noises every time i play with the fuzz and modulation pots... and when it starts it never goes away... for example if i leave the pedal for a day or so , the pedal will be playing really well and the fuzz will be perfect ... but if i start puting some depth and speed then things go wrong and weird noises come out... i think that all starts from the fuzz... i changed transistor but it keeps doing this .... and when this problem apears i wait until one day sudenly stops by its own and i dont know how this is happend :P im thinking about starting all this pedal from the start .. well i dont know much from pedals so i have no idea how they work...i just copy the layout to a pcb ... So please if anyone understands whats going on and can help me it would be perfect !
I also have some problems with Echo dream. I built two and both have some loud cracking noise at long time repeats. Also modulation control doesn't work - there's a little constant modulation, but pots depth/speed doesn't affect anything (while turning depth pot there is modulation, but when I stop turning it - modulation also stops). Checked everything three times, resoldered cables, checked another ICs and have no idea what's wrong. Except this echo sounds brilliant.
hey, sorry for the delay (haha, ehh) but nope, i got no cure for this. noise at long delay seem to be a quite problem with 2399. i made another one and modulation is still dead.
Have you guys tried swapping in a PT2399 that you know to be good? There are a lot of noisy PT2399s out there and if you only swap in another PT2399 from the same batch chances are it won't help
just to add. PT2399s are very finicky and its always good to always have a few of them and socket them and try different ones. plenty of times you'll find that one PT2399 will be super noisy in one effect, but perfectly fine in another.
Yep, I tried a bunch of PT2399 and also fixed the voltages and still there is noise on long delay time. Osciloscope shows it's PT's distortion, but replacing it doesn't help.
You could try adding a green LED (or any diode with a Vf 2.2ish volts) from PT pin 7 to ground (row above the cut on top of the regulator). A few guys had success in other PT builds with this.
Ciaran, I am currently assembling this board and am worried that I may have a ticking problem once everything is put together. As a precaution I want to put a socket in now, in case I need to try your LED suggestion. As the PT chip is inserted upside down, the area near the regulator is not really accessible to pin 7, I was thinking of putting one socket pin in the vacant hole next to pin 7 in the top right hand portion of the board and the other socket pin in the vacant hole immediately above the negative terminal of the 100uF electro. Does that sound right to you? Also, if I have 3mm red @1.96Vf and 5mm clear green @2.55Vf, which would be most suitable please?
Oops...missed it's orientation sorry. Yip...your solution will work. This won't help ticking though. Its a means of preventing, or limiting PT distortion. The pins are biased around 2.5V so you're looking for a diode with a Vf of close but not exceeding 2.5V.
For anti ticking...take a look at the Madbean Wigl thread here. A few of us experimented with the LFO to reduce ticking. Made a huge difference for me. You'll have to plan well ahead adapting those ideas to this layout though so take care.
By a process of elimination, I presume that the pot labelled "Blend" in this layout corresponds to the pot labelled "Delay" on the original pedal. Would someone be able to confirm this please? As I'm a relative novice in these matters, could someone also please explain the actual task of this pot that warrants the title "Blend", and how that blending affects the sound in a way which warrants the title "Delay" in the original pedal? Hope that is expressed clearly enough. I know what I mean! :)
My fuzz knob is caring more like a volume knob....no sound when turned town, muffled and basey when turned up (no fuzz though). Any ideas on where to start checking?
I'd first check the cut on the Fuzz 1 row and the cut below and left. A stray piece of copper on any of these could connect Fuzz 1 row to ground...explaining your symptoms. Look closely at these cuts and run a knife along the gaps.
Thanks, the cuts look good and I checked with a continuity meter. Something I did notice, if I crank the fuzz and play hard, there is a slight splatty fuzz sound. Any other thoughts on what to check. As a sidenote, the modulation and delay both seem to be working fine (except for some thumping..in certain settings)
Id like to hear some clips of someone who actually got this working. Sorry for the need of proof, but I have attempted way too many death by audio pedals off this page without success and I'm starting to lean towards conspiracy. This is way to big to jump into blind with so many people asking for help and no build reports. Id really appreciate it!
soundcloud is pretty easy and quick... youtube? I dont need pics unless you wanna show off your sweet build? but id love to hear it! such a big complicated build, im scared to undertake it then have it sounding and acting a little different. Id REALLY appreciate it!
Thank you so much! I dont need it to be anything super fancy. An iphone audio or video recording would work fine! Do you like the circuit? any concerns? I have just had the worst luck with DBA vero's. The only one ive gotten working right is the Robot. Every single other DBA vero i've tried has been a miserable failure. I feel like they use weird spec'd transistors or something in their fuzz pedals. seems like noone can get them to sound like the originals
This circuit needs at least 10 volts to work properly, any lower and the xr2206 will not work so no modulation. It will not modulate with a 9 volt battery.
really now? are the people that say they have working circuits at 9v just full of it? i always feel like there's some sort of conspiracy with these DBA layouts. like someone from DBA is releasing the schematics just slightly off enough to make all of us cloners waste our time and find them uncloneable.
Bwahaha. I'm sure it works right at 9V, but maybe the modulation isnt as great as at a higher voltage. trying it at a higher voltage shouldn't hurt it and adding a voltage doubler is an easy thing to do.
It does say in the datasheet for the xr2206 that the operating range is 10V-26V
Most power supplies put out about 9.6V, not sure if that would be close enough but if you're having issues it would be worth trying it in the spec'd operating range
Appreciate all the comments on the voltage requirements of the XR2206. It perplexes me that it bothers people so much! I will try to answer the observations. A voltage doubler will work fine. I can only talk from experience that this design will not modulate properly below 10 volts. I have not tried it at 9.6 or whatever, I just run it at 12 volts knowing that it will definitely work properly and not damage anything else. I have tested new "9 volt" batteries at 9.7 volts and had 9 volt power supplies running at 16 volts. For those reasons I always test new circuits with an old battery to limit the current and voltage if there is a dead short. Also it helps to highlight power issues with the circuit. So I would have initially tested it at around 7.5 volts, and immediately noticed no modulation. Remembered the XR2206, upped it to 12 and voila. As requested by Elf Hands Customs here is a demonstration video on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNg15jJ3Pfg I cannot go along with the conspiracy theory as I have built this layout and it works superbly. Just remember that many of the people who have built this successfully will be using power supplies that will be well over indicated or brand new batteries. I highly recommend that you turn your elf hands to building one and give up on the conspiracy theories!! Good luck. Finally I must say this is the most mental and amusing thing that I have ever built.
Hey people! Any updates pics etc of someone just build this pedal? I had enough of building boost, fuzz, overdrives I really think that I found my best so this pedal seams quite a challenge. Can somebody summary all the comments and efforts in one comment so that we can follow and decide to build it or not? Thankssssssss! Big hugs Gogo
I've been messing around with my Echo Dream II clone and I think the modulation shape switch is not wired right. The way it's wired, you don't have two different wave shapes, you have modulation on and off. I've been testing and I think the right way to wire it goes like this, considering the DPDT lug numbers as 1 2 3 4 5 6
Where the layout says "Switch 1", you actually wire it to lug 3, where it says "Switch 2", wire to lug 4. 4 and 5 goes to 1 and 2, and 3 and 6 goes to 5 and 6.
Just built one of these. This whole thing is pretty current hungry. As a result, the 100 ohm resistor in line with the reverse protection diode causes a huge voltage drop to the point that my 2206 chip would not run reliably -- gave me a pretty cruddy wave form out of pin 2. I put a 1ohm resistor (yes, one) in place of the 100ohm resistor and run with a 9vdc supply. The sine wave out of pin 2 is being clamped (op amp rail) but the thing fundamentally works.
Secondly, I know this is probably kind of obvious, but I found that the lug numbers for the DPDT switch can be numbered two general ways (depending upon supplier) -- If you use the wrong numbering scheme, the modulation has NO effect on the reverb chip. Here's the scheme that DOESN'T work:
1 2 3 4 5 6
Here's the one that DOES WORK and is presumed by the Vero board layout above: 1 4 2 5 3 6
Interesting, I have seen that a couple people ran the pedal at 12 or 15 volts to get reliable operation out of the 2206. Other than that it sounds like the demos for you? :) -Brett
I wrote a detailed post with voltages in the forum section for this. I ran mine on a 18v charge pump and everything is working great. The delay is a little noisy, but that's why they put a fuzz knob on it. The modulation is pretty good, very slight tick, but it's pretty decent. I haven't boxed it yet.. I think I'll try a BB and see how it fits. I don't care for the wet only setting at all. Tried it out for quite a while, just not my cup of tea. I wired my dpdt as specified above by Dupont. The square setting is pretty bananas. Anyway check my forum post for voltages if you need them. -Brett
made one last night and assembled the circuit exactly as shown in the layout and wired the dpdt switch as such:
1 4 2 5 3 6
works perfect at 18v using two 9v batteries. no ticking, no noise. ive never played through an original echo dream but it sounds just like the demos ive seen online. i got my MC33172P from the ebay seller hkutsource and my XR2206P from polida2008.
hope this helps, i started building pedals about 6 months ago and have been dreaming of making this one since day one
hi all! I'm just wondering, what's the purpose of the 100R?
I've built a ne555 based charge pump (found on this site) and getting 15Volts out of it but by the time it arrives to the ICs it is nearly 9.8Volts. :( So I started measuring the powerline and found that I have 0.3-0.4 Volts voltagedrop on the diode and almost 4.3-4.5Volts voltage drop on the 100R. At this point I started wondering to change the 100R to a lower one? Any comment on this? What about 10 Ohms?
Any idea why I'm having only 15Volts out from the voltage doubler(ne555 based, found ir here)? Is the diodes opening on lower voltages? (1n4001)
Anyway, I made the other chargepump with the 7660s and this time a fair 12.5Volts are reaching the ICs.
I finished the Echodream with a temporary tl072 until the mc33172 arrives. Added a chargepump inside the box with an spdt. All these fitted into a 125B box. :)
It sounds awesomly, although I also have problems like Grigoris Patinis, namely that at large delay times the wet signal start hissing. I tried different pt2399s and the back-to-back green leds, but still the same. The troubling thing is that on pin7 of the pt2399 I only have 0.2-0.4 Volts so no signal above 2.5 at all. Anyway, maybe the mc33172 and the tl072 is not interchangeable so easily so I'll try it later.
Thank you guys to make this site happen and running. It is awesome!
My pedal does not work ... Always passes the bypass only. The volume and fuzz pots work, but the modulation does not. I've tried 3X PT2399 and 3X 2206 and it continues. I checked everything 5x and nothing ...
This is definitely one of the most difficult layouts I've built, double check your wiring for the pots. I had one wire wrong and the whole thing didn't work at all. After you check that, go find my post in the forum section under verified layouts and delays and check all your IC voltages against the ones I posted, or the ones up further that are also verified from a working pedal.. then if you cant get it going, make a post in the debugging thread and get some good quality pictures of your board, both sides -Brett
Thanks a lot for everybody's imput. I have a question: is it possible to midi sync this delay ? This is the only thing that stop me building it. regards, daniel
Is it possible to make the micro dream delay from this circuit as well? I assume just include the controls for feedback delay and volume right? How could we do that?
Hi ! Does the modulation is working ? Mine work well but pots depth/speed doesn't affect anything (while turning depth pot there is modulation, but when I stop turning it - modulation also stops). Checked everything three times, resoldered cables, checked another ICs and have no idea what's wrong. Except this echo sounds brilliant. Have you got any idea ??
Hey all. Switch 2 is listed as 'SPST' on the layout, with connections to lugs 2 and 3. SPST switches only have 2 lugs. Is Switch 2 meant to be a SPDT on-on switch instead? Thanks in advance.
For those wondering why some people seem to get this to work on 9V - In this video, this guy shows a fake XR2206 (of which eBay is packed) runs at 9v (and cannot run at higher!!!). Perhaps this is an explanation!?
Also, for those who get trouble, noise and no modulation, while running it at 12-18v, try yours at 9v! It might be a fake!
I bought on eBay a chip which is almost certainly a fake (date claims it was made in 2013, when Exar stopped making it in 2011) and it doesn't work (high noise, no modulation and the chip gets HOT) when running at 14v. I will test with 9v and post my results.
Finish the board and luckly works right, I like it warm echo rather than delay, al the modulation works fine though, but a Dirtbaby[madbean's pt2399 type MemoryManDeluxe] is better,more vivid IMO.. 'Fuzz'act like a boost just 'loud' but not o-drive instead, the'wet only'not really useful,especially the'Mix'pot already had, maybe'dry out'get more make sence,haha.. Thank you for Alex's layout, I took this effect combined with AmpTweaker Tight-matel distortion for a 'Instant noodle jamming pedal'..share a few shot here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/AWAwwzGeTqmjkEPx6
After finding a couple of the usual silly mistakes, my build is working really nicely!! About 98% of the way there. I'd like to get the feedback pot in the same range as the original. In the video it seems to be getting infinite repeats starting at around 1-2 o'clock. Which resistor do I need to adjust to get it there? Is it the 1K inbetween the two 10k on the left of the 2399? Cheers for any help:)
Just built one of these, I've got a problem somewhere and don't have the experience to know where to look - if I turn up the feedback to get self-oscillation, all the controls seem to work just fine (though it's hard to judge exactly what the modulation's doing with that sort of sound)
But... it seems like the input signal's not getting to the PT2399, unless I absolutely smash the strings - then I get the shortest, gated sound just for the duration of the transient that makes it through. I'm wondering if that might provide a clue as to where I've gone awry?
Hey guys, Just built this one. When SW2 is in one position I only get volume and fuzz, others pots don't influence the sound at all and when SW2 is in the other position I simply get no sound. Any idea of what the issue could be? Thanks :)
Thanks guys!
ReplyDeleteOh
ReplyDeleteMy
God
Looks awesome, I have parts on order. Would a TL072 be a good alternative to the MC31172?
ReplyDeleteIt appears to be, some people say the MC33172 is noisier too, I may try one of my leftover NE5532's when I get to it.
DeleteDude I'm so glad someone built this, I was the one who requested it, and then found out I owed University another $550USD so my plans for building it got shot down for a little while. I'm so damned pumped to build this pedal. It basically creates in a single box what I go for a lot with my setup! Thanks Alex!!!
ReplyDelete-Brett
YES
ReplyDeleteAwesome! I ogle it since long!
ReplyDeleteBut I have two noob-questions:
1) Whats up with the 32nf cap on the left of the pt2399? I tried to find one but failed. Does this value even exist or can I put 33nf in it's place? Or is it maybe 3,2nf?!
2) Can I put any Op-Amp in MC31172s place? Does a workalike exist? Or DO those alternatives named above work without any changing of other parts?
I think that cap is 82n...
DeleteHow come?
DeleteI've found it, sorry. That's really a 32n..
DeleteThe schematic shows a 82n between pins 9 and 10 on the PT2399, though it's not an official schem. I also do not think a 32n is made.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletethis vero indeed shows 82n. its not 33n. most delays on this site use 100n at that position
DeleteI see, He's talking about the 32n yellow box type (in the layout) between rows 1 and 3, Yeah I will be using a 33n like Sonus indicated.
DeleteThanks a lot for all the replies!
DeleteI'll try it with a 33nf and a tl072, like in sonus build. Maybe one day I'll find a MC31172 and swap the tl072 out for testing, if my build works.
I think I'll build it with the switchable 9v/18v charge pump. Just in case any ticking accrues.. and to see how the sound changes.
Here is a hint if you ever have a hard time reading component values on these layouts. Use the ZOOM function on your browser. These images scale up just fine with no distortion and you can see everything.
DeleteThanks Paul, but the yellow cap I asked for shows indeed the 32nf. There was no problem on my side, only a little confusion which cap I asked for.
DeleteI wasn't shure weather there was a 32nf cap in existence because I couldn't find one so I asked if it's replaceable.
But thank you nonetheless!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteComponents values should be correct.
ReplyDeleteThe layout has already been verified by SonusFluxa in the Forum section (He also recorded an audio demo).
33n caps should be fine..
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI built mine using a 33nf cap and a tl072, in case anyone was curious.
DeleteHey Sonus, does your build have any ticking noises with the Fuzz up? I read from the original schematic poster that his had wicked Ticking and he ended up building a charge pump for the 2206 to kick it.. Just curious
DeleteI haven't noticed any ticking with my build.
DeleteHey Sonus- I seem to remember reading you had a build report and audio clips and all that. would you mind linking it for me? Thanks!
DeleteI really like this, is sounds different enough to other delays I have that I might build it as well. Am I correct in thinking that adding tap tempo functionality would be a big project? What about an effects loop in the feedback circuit? Many thanks.
ReplyDeleteWould adding an effects loop in the circuit allow you to run effects that would be increased with each delay? For example, if an octave pedal was placed in the loop would the signal go up/down an octave with each delay? I would like to do this as well.
DeleteI am also trying to work out if the fuzz can be used only in the feedback loop, so the original signal is left untouched but the repeats become progressively fuzzier. Either way, I wasn't looking for a delay pedal but heard this and instantly decided to build it.
DeleteAlso, the depth and feedback pots are marked C100K - does that mean reverse log? Thank you.
ReplyDeleteYeah, A is Log, B is Linear, C is Reverse Log
DeleteI had someone asking me about building this a few weeks ago so I took apart my Echo Dream 2 to figure out the components. Upon looking up the modulation chip I found the suggested layout for the chip. In case anyone wants to change their design for a little more versatility:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.guideic.com/Resources/KeyImg/XR-2206CP.gif
Hello everyone,
ReplyDeleteI couldn't seem to find XR2206P chip available from any of our local vendors here in Asia. any recommended substitute for the chip?
Tayda has a XR2206CP:
Deletehttp://www.taydaelectronics.com/xr-2206-xr2206cp-xr2206-monolithic-function-generator-ic.html
I haven't figured out what those letter codes mean (is there any system behind it?) - can this one be used?
usually the suffix is just a designation by the company and nothing more. for instance the TL071 you can find TL071cn, TL071cp, etc. they're all the same IC.
DeleteOK, the only difference between XR2206P and XR2206CP I find in the datasheet is the operating temperature range - so I'd assume this one to work
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think I missed something... What is the value of the Q?
ReplyDeleteDo you mean the transistor?
DeleteIt's written on the layout.
It's a 78L05 5V positive voltage regulator.
Would someone with a working one who can run it off 18V be so gracious as to give me their current draw? Mine is driving me nuts, the charge pump gives 18V with no load but as soon as I connect it to the circuit it drops to about 8V, so it's acting like the charge pump can't give the circuit enough current but I'm reading 16mA, which seems about right to me? Been through it with a fine toothcomb for shorts/opens/lifted grounds etc., nothing.
ReplyDeleteI should really learn not to try and do maths at 1am, and stick to Ockam's razor... actual current draw is about 50mA, so the circuit was indeed screaming for current. Rather than mess around trying to get 50mA out of a 555 charge pump I've frankensteined it so the 18V is only switched on to the 2206, also means I don't risk melting the 78l05.
DeleteOut of interest, how has everyone else found the modulation? I've only been arsing around with 18V because the modulation was barely noticeable on 9V, which is unsurprising considering the 2206 datasheet says it needs 12V to run properly. Has everyone else found it runs OK on 9V or this another case of DBA's "screw it, close enough" design philosophy?
Does this fit into a 1590BB?
ReplyDeleteAlso, curious... did you all lay out the pots in the same general layout as the original? Does knob size make a difference in regard to ratio when you turn it?
Since this is on vero and not a PCB with board mounted pots you can put the pots and switches wherever you please really. The knob size doesn't make a difference because the pot whiper is connected to the pot, so there's no gears or anything to alter the ratio.
DeleteThanks, Zach. Any particular layout for the knobs and switches that you think makes the most sense? Also, 1590BB?
Deleteunfortunately not really for this specifically. you can find generic drill templates online, but not build specific for this. if you look at the build gallery (show your pedal guts) in the open chat of the forum and you'll see a lot of builds from the guys in the community, myself included, and we either make our own like me, or use the generic ones and put the pots and switches in the best places.
Deleteyou can make it fit in a 1590bb, but you're going to have to lay things out so that things fit nicely without grounding out.
Doesn't knob size always affect the ratio? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the question. You get more control over fine grained movement with a larger knob. So theres a larger distance to resistance change ratio with a larger knob. Not that it matters too much though. More personal preference.
DeleteAnother noob question.. what is a 2K7 or 6K8 resistor? Is that a typo (27k, 68k) or something different?
ReplyDelete2K7 means 2.7K (the letter replaces the decimal).
Delete2K7 is 2.7K
ReplyDelete6K8 is 6.8K
It's just another way of writing things.
This could fit in a 1590BB depending on how you lay out the hardware.
Not trying to be rude here, but it sounds like you should try some simpler builds before you dive in with this one. Maybe something simple with a couple pots and a toggle switch so you can see how everything goes together
No rudeness taken!
DeleteI do plan on doing two more builds before doing this one. I've already done one, wanted to get a few more under my belt before doing this. Just planning ahead.
I just realized I have a 1590BBM, so I think that'll cut it. Thanks.
Like this one. Built with 33nf and TL072. I love the fuzz on this really quite doomy sounding which is just what i like. Thanks as always everyone.
ReplyDeleteCan you post some clips or pics of your build? I wanna see some proof of this one before jumping into this massive build. Too many failed DBA builds from this site
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DeleteAnyone else hear the LFO as a kind of "thump?" It's not a ticking but it moves according to the rate speed.
ReplyDeleteHi all.
ReplyDeleteIf I want to get 18v out of this but operate it on a 9v adapter I would have to put in a 7660s or similar daughter board correct? Also. Would it operate any better on 18v?
I can't tell you if it will operate better at 18V, but if you want 18V, but have/use a 9V then just use the voltage doubler board. You can even make it switchable between 9V & 18V, there's a couple layouts for it on the main site.
DeleteHi all.
ReplyDeleteIf I want to get 18v out of this but operate it on a 9v adapter I would have to put in a 7660s or similar daughter board correct? Also. Would it operate any better on 18v?
i need help! :/ well i have to say that the pedal is perfect... but i have some problems that i cant solve :/ first of all i have some cracking noises every time i play with the fuzz and modulation pots... and when it starts it never goes away... for example if i leave the pedal for a day or so , the pedal will be playing really well and the fuzz will be perfect ... but if i start puting some depth and speed then things go wrong and weird noises come out... i think that all starts from the fuzz... i changed transistor but it keeps doing this .... and when this problem apears i wait until one day sudenly stops by its own and i dont know how this is happend :P im thinking about starting all this pedal from the start .. well i dont know much from pedals so i have no idea how they work...i just copy the layout to a pcb ... So please if anyone understands whats going on and can help me it would be perfect !
ReplyDeleteI also have some problems with Echo dream. I built two and both have some loud cracking noise at long time repeats. Also modulation control doesn't work - there's a little constant modulation, but pots depth/speed doesn't affect anything (while turning depth pot there is modulation, but when I stop turning it - modulation also stops). Checked everything three times, resoldered cables, checked another ICs and have no idea what's wrong. Except this echo sounds brilliant.
ReplyDeleteI have the same problem with the modulation, have you solved it yet?
DeleteHi gfp!
Deletedid you find a solution for the noise at long delay times?
hey, sorry for the delay (haha, ehh) but nope, i got no cure for this. noise at long delay seem to be a quite problem with 2399. i made another one and modulation is still dead.
Deletei mean 'a quite common problem with 2399'.
DeleteHave you guys tried swapping in a PT2399 that you know to be good? There are a lot of noisy PT2399s out there and if you only swap in another PT2399 from the same batch chances are it won't help
ReplyDeletejust to add. PT2399s are very finicky and its always good to always have a few of them and socket them and try different ones. plenty of times you'll find that one PT2399 will be super noisy in one effect, but perfectly fine in another.
DeleteYep, I got a few PT2399 and replacing it doesn't help. I also resoldered socket to be sure it isn't cold soldered.
ReplyDeleteDid you double check components values?
DeleteCan you measure voltages?
Values are right. I'll check voltages when I have a while, thanks.
DeleteWell, 7805 seems to be dead as it has 8,6V at input and 8,5V at output. I'll buy a bunch new ones next week and see what happens.
Deletemy 7805 has 9,7V input and 5,6V output.... So i guess mine is dead too :P ! i hope this is the only problem for you too !
Deleteoh no! isn't it supposed to have 5volts output? :P
DeleteI also have a white noise problem ... when i max the delay and time pots... i replaced same pt2399 but nothing changed :/
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DeleteYep, I tried a bunch of PT2399 and also fixed the voltages and still there is noise on long delay time. Osciloscope shows it's PT's distortion, but replacing it doesn't help.
DeleteYou could try adding a green LED (or any diode with a Vf 2.2ish volts) from PT pin 7 to ground (row above the cut on top of the regulator). A few guys had success in other PT builds with this.
DeleteCiaran, I am currently assembling this board and am worried that I may have a ticking problem once everything is put together. As a precaution I want to put a socket in now, in case I need to try your LED suggestion. As the PT chip is inserted upside down, the area near the regulator is not really accessible to pin 7, I was thinking of putting one socket pin in the vacant hole next to pin 7 in the top right hand portion of the board and the other socket pin in the vacant hole immediately above the negative terminal of the 100uF electro. Does that sound right to you? Also, if I have 3mm red @1.96Vf and 5mm clear green @2.55Vf, which would be most suitable please?
DeleteOops...missed it's orientation sorry. Yip...your solution will work. This won't help ticking though. Its a means of preventing, or limiting PT distortion. The pins are biased around 2.5V so you're looking for a diode with a Vf of close but not exceeding 2.5V.
DeleteFor anti ticking...take a look at the Madbean Wigl thread here. A few of us experimented with the LFO to reduce ticking. Made a huge difference for me. You'll have to plan well ahead adapting those ideas to this layout though so take care.
Great mate, thanks for that. Will check out the Wigl thread.
DeleteThanks also for your input here and elsewhere.
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ReplyDeleteBy a process of elimination, I presume that the pot labelled "Blend" in this layout corresponds to the pot labelled "Delay" on the original pedal. Would someone be able to confirm this please?
ReplyDeleteAs I'm a relative novice in these matters, could someone also please explain the actual task of this pot that warrants the title "Blend", and how that blending affects the sound in a way which warrants the title "Delay" in the original pedal?
Hope that is expressed clearly enough. I know what I mean! :)
My fuzz knob is caring more like a volume knob....no sound when turned town, muffled and basey when turned up (no fuzz though). Any ideas on where to start checking?
ReplyDeleteI'd first check the cut on the Fuzz 1 row and the cut below and left. A stray piece of copper on any of these could connect Fuzz 1 row to ground...explaining your symptoms. Look closely at these cuts and run a knife along the gaps.
DeleteThanks, the cuts look good and I checked with a continuity meter. Something I did notice, if I crank the fuzz and play hard, there is a slight splatty fuzz sound. Any other thoughts on what to check. As a sidenote, the modulation and delay both seem to be working fine (except for some thumping..in certain settings)
ReplyDeleteId like to hear some clips of someone who actually got this working. Sorry for the need of proof, but I have attempted way too many death by audio pedals off this page without success and I'm starting to lean towards conspiracy. This is way to big to jump into blind with so many people asking for help and no build reports. Id really appreciate it!
ReplyDeleteI have just built one and it works remarkably well. How can I post you pictures and audio?
Deletesoundcloud is pretty easy and quick... youtube? I dont need pics unless you wanna show off your sweet build? but id love to hear it! such a big complicated build, im scared to undertake it then have it sounding and acting a little different. Id REALLY appreciate it!
DeleteOK I will get a sound clip sorted.
DeleteBear with me
Thank you so much! I dont need it to be anything super fancy. An iphone audio or video recording would work fine! Do you like the circuit? any concerns? I have just had the worst luck with DBA vero's. The only one ive gotten working right is the Robot. Every single other DBA vero i've tried has been a miserable failure. I feel like they use weird spec'd transistors or something in their fuzz pedals. seems like noone can get them to sound like the originals
DeleteIts just been posted below that in order to get the modulation working you have to have 10v to the xr2206. does your modulation work? did you use 18v?
DeleteThis circuit needs at least 10 volts to work properly, any lower and the xr2206 will not work so no modulation.
ReplyDeleteIt will not modulate with a 9 volt battery.
Might be a good idea to add a voltage doubler to get 18V then.
Deletereally now? are the people that say they have working circuits at 9v just full of it? i always feel like there's some sort of conspiracy with these DBA layouts. like someone from DBA is releasing the schematics just slightly off enough to make all of us cloners waste our time and find them uncloneable.
DeleteBwahaha. I'm sure it works right at 9V, but maybe the modulation isnt as great as at a higher voltage. trying it at a higher voltage shouldn't hurt it and adding a voltage doubler is an easy thing to do.
DeleteIt does say in the datasheet for the xr2206 that the operating range is 10V-26V
ReplyDeleteMost power supplies put out about 9.6V, not sure if that would be close enough but if you're having issues it would be worth trying it in the spec'd operating range
Appreciate all the comments on the voltage requirements of the XR2206. It perplexes me that it bothers people so much! I will try to answer the observations.
ReplyDeleteA voltage doubler will work fine.
I can only talk from experience that this design will not modulate properly below 10 volts. I have not tried it at 9.6 or whatever, I just run it at 12 volts knowing that it will definitely work properly and not damage anything else.
I have tested new "9 volt" batteries at 9.7 volts and had 9 volt power supplies running at 16 volts. For those reasons I always test new circuits with an old battery to limit the current and voltage if there is a dead short. Also it helps to highlight power issues with the circuit. So I would have initially tested it at around 7.5 volts, and immediately noticed no modulation. Remembered the XR2206, upped it to 12 and voila.
As requested by Elf Hands Customs here is a demonstration video on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNg15jJ3Pfg
I cannot go along with the conspiracy theory as I have built this layout and it works superbly. Just remember that many of the people who have built this successfully will be using power supplies that will be well over indicated or brand new batteries.
I highly recommend that you turn your elf hands to building one and give up on the conspiracy theories!! Good luck.
Finally I must say this is the most mental and amusing thing that I have ever built.
Hey people! Any updates pics etc of someone just build this pedal?
ReplyDeleteI had enough of building boost, fuzz, overdrives I really think that I found my best so this pedal seams quite a challenge.
Can somebody summary all the comments and efforts in one comment so that we can follow and decide to build it or not? Thankssssssss! Big hugs Gogo
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ReplyDeleteI've been messing around with my Echo Dream II clone and I think the modulation shape switch is not wired right. The way it's wired, you don't have two different wave shapes, you have modulation on and off. I've been testing and I think the right way to wire it goes like this, considering the DPDT lug numbers as
ReplyDelete1 2
3 4
5 6
Where the layout says "Switch 1", you actually wire it to lug 3, where it says "Switch 2", wire to lug 4. 4 and 5 goes to 1 and 2, and 3 and 6 goes to 5 and 6.
As far as I can tell you are correct. I didn't wire it the other way, just followed what you wrote. Works perfectly.
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ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteWhich one has managed to make modulation work well? I use 18v and I have ploc-ploc on one side and no modulation on the other?
ReplyDeleteI tried solution switch proposed by Guilherme but really space modulation
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ReplyDeleteJust built one of these. This whole thing is pretty current hungry. As a result, the 100 ohm resistor in line with the reverse protection diode causes a huge voltage drop to the point that my 2206 chip would not run reliably -- gave me a pretty cruddy wave form out of pin 2. I put a 1ohm resistor (yes, one) in place of the 100ohm resistor and run with a 9vdc supply. The sine wave out of pin 2 is being clamped (op amp rail) but the thing fundamentally works.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, I know this is probably kind of obvious, but I found that the lug numbers for the DPDT switch can be numbered two general ways (depending upon supplier) -- If you use the wrong numbering scheme, the modulation has NO effect on the reverb chip. Here's the scheme that DOESN'T work:
1 2
3 4
5 6
Here's the one that DOES WORK and is presumed by the Vero board layout above:
1 4
2 5
3 6
Cheers!
Interesting, I have seen that a couple people ran the pedal at 12 or 15 volts to get reliable operation out of the 2206. Other than that it sounds like the demos for you? :)
Delete-Brett
I wrote a detailed post with voltages in the forum section for this. I ran mine on a 18v charge pump and everything is working great. The delay is a little noisy, but that's why they put a fuzz knob on it. The modulation is pretty good, very slight tick, but it's pretty decent. I haven't boxed it yet.. I think I'll try a BB and see how it fits. I don't care for the wet only setting at all. Tried it out for quite a while, just not my cup of tea. I wired my dpdt as specified above by Dupont. The square setting is pretty bananas. Anyway check my forum post for voltages if you need them.
ReplyDelete-Brett
just finished this one. works great! sketchy at 9 or 12 v but works amazing at 18v.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletemade one last night and assembled the circuit exactly as shown in the layout and wired the dpdt switch as such:
ReplyDelete1 4
2 5
3 6
works perfect at 18v using two 9v batteries. no ticking, no noise. ive never played through an original echo dream but it sounds just like the demos ive seen online. i got my MC33172P from the ebay seller hkutsource and my XR2206P from polida2008.
hope this helps, i started building pedals about 6 months ago and have been dreaming of making this one since day one
hi all!
ReplyDeleteI'm just wondering, what's the purpose of the 100R?
I've built a ne555 based charge pump (found on this site) and getting 15Volts out of it but by the time it arrives to the ICs it is nearly 9.8Volts. :(
So I started measuring the powerline and found that I have 0.3-0.4 Volts voltagedrop on the diode and almost 4.3-4.5Volts voltage drop on the 100R. At this point I started wondering to change the 100R to a lower one?
Any comment on this? What about 10 Ohms?
Any idea why I'm having only 15Volts out from the voltage doubler(ne555 based, found ir here)? Is the diodes opening on lower voltages? (1n4001)
Anyway, I made the other chargepump with the 7660s and this time a fair 12.5Volts are reaching the ICs.
DeleteI finished the Echodream with a temporary tl072 until the mc33172 arrives. Added a chargepump inside the box with an spdt. All these fitted into a 125B box. :)
Pic: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9optorc11pjikko/2017-09-02%2022.44.32.jpg?dl=0
It sounds awesomly, although I also have problems like Grigoris Patinis, namely that at large delay times the wet signal start hissing. I tried different pt2399s and the back-to-back green leds, but still the same. The troubling thing is that on pin7 of the pt2399 I only have 0.2-0.4 Volts so no signal above 2.5 at all.
Anyway, maybe the mc33172 and the tl072 is not interchangeable so easily so I'll try it later.
Thank you guys to make this site happen and running. It is awesome!
Yeah I got a NE5532 in mine right now instead of the MC33172, I may try a TL062 and see if it's quieter. Definitely hisses at long delay times.
Delete-Brett
My pedal does not work ... Always passes the bypass only.
ReplyDeleteThe volume and fuzz pots work, but the modulation does not.
I've tried 3X PT2399 and 3X 2206 and it continues.
I checked everything 5x and nothing ...
This is definitely one of the most difficult layouts I've built, double check your wiring for the pots. I had one wire wrong and the whole thing didn't work at all. After you check that, go find my post in the forum section under verified layouts and delays and check all your IC voltages against the ones I posted, or the ones up further that are also verified from a working pedal.. then if you cant get it going, make a post in the debugging thread and get some good quality pictures of your board, both sides
Delete-Brett
PT2399:
ReplyDelete1- 4.98v
2- 2.50v
3- 0v
4- 0v
5- 3.06v
6- 2.50v
7- 0.75v
8- 0.75v
9- 2.50v
10- 2.50v
11- 2.50v
12- 2.50v
13- 2.50v
14- 2.50v
15- 2.50v
16- 2.50v
2206:
1- 0v
2- 1.50v-10.50v
3- 1.50v-10.50v
4- 14v
5- 6.82v
6- 6.82v
7- 3.13v
8- 3.99v
9- 1.61v
10- 3.13v
11- 0-8.5v
12- 0v
13- 4.50v-5.12v
14- 4.50v-5.12v
15- 1.18v
16- 1.18v
MC33172
1- 6.90v
2- 6.90v
3- 6.50v
4- 0v
5- 6.24v
6- 1v
7- 6.75v
8- 13.50v
DC IN: 18.50v
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone have the schematic or a link to it?
ReplyDeleteThanks a lot for everybody's imput.
ReplyDeleteI have a question: is it possible to midi sync this delay ?
This is the only thing that stop me building it.
regards, daniel
Is it possible to make the micro dream delay from this circuit as well? I assume just include the controls for feedback delay and volume right? How could we do that?
ReplyDeleteHi ! Does the modulation is working ?
ReplyDeleteMine work well but pots depth/speed doesn't affect anything (while turning depth pot there is modulation, but when I stop turning it - modulation also stops). Checked everything three times, resoldered cables, checked another ICs and have no idea what's wrong. Except this echo sounds brilliant.
Have you got any idea ??
Hey all. Switch 2 is listed as 'SPST' on the layout, with connections to lugs 2 and 3. SPST switches only have 2 lugs. Is Switch 2 meant to be a SPDT on-on switch instead? Thanks in advance.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02XtneCHnDA
ReplyDeleteFor those wondering why some people seem to get this to work on 9V - In this video, this guy shows a fake XR2206 (of which eBay is packed) runs at 9v (and cannot run at higher!!!). Perhaps this is an explanation!?
Also, for those who get trouble, noise and no modulation, while running it at 12-18v, try yours at 9v! It might be a fake!
I bought on eBay a chip which is almost certainly a fake (date claims it was made in 2013, when Exar stopped making it in 2011) and it doesn't work (high noise, no modulation and the chip gets HOT) when running at 14v. I will test with 9v and post my results.
Finish the board and luckly works right, I like it warm echo rather than delay, al the modulation works fine though, but a Dirtbaby[madbean's pt2399 type MemoryManDeluxe] is better,more vivid IMO.. 'Fuzz'act like a boost just 'loud' but not o-drive instead, the'wet only'not really useful,especially the'Mix'pot already had, maybe'dry out'get more make sence,haha.. Thank you for Alex's layout, I took this effect combined with AmpTweaker Tight-matel distortion for a 'Instant noodle jamming pedal'..share a few shot here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/AWAwwzGeTqmjkEPx6
ReplyDeleteBuilt it - fuzz and modulation work, but have only one repeat with all positions of Feedback pot (PT2399 is OK - test it with other stompbox)
ReplyDeleteWhats the difference between the yellow and the orange capacitors in the diagram?
ReplyDeleteAfter finding a couple of the usual silly mistakes, my build is working really nicely!! About 98% of the way there. I'd like to get the feedback pot in the same range as the original. In the video it seems to be getting infinite repeats starting at around 1-2 o'clock. Which resistor do I need to adjust to get it there? Is it the 1K inbetween the two 10k on the left of the 2399?
ReplyDeleteCheers for any help:)
Just built one of these, I've got a problem somewhere and don't have the experience to know where to look - if I turn up the feedback to get self-oscillation, all the controls seem to work just fine (though it's hard to judge exactly what the modulation's doing with that sort of sound)
ReplyDeleteBut... it seems like the input signal's not getting to the PT2399, unless I absolutely smash the strings - then I get the shortest, gated sound just for the duration of the transient that makes it through. I'm wondering if that might provide a clue as to where I've gone awry?
Josh
Scratch that - got it working. Am getting ticking from the modulation though that speeds up with the "speed" knob.
DeleteHey guys,
ReplyDeleteJust built this one. When SW2 is in one position I only get volume and fuzz, others pots don't influence the sound at all and when SW2 is in the other position I simply get no sound. Any idea of what the issue could be?
Thanks :)
Any alternative to XR2206P? None in stock in normal stores and ebay's full of fakes. UK based here.
ReplyDeleteit works great only 18v. trick build this one, thanks for the layout
ReplyDelete