The NYC original. Hendrix and Santana were among the first to get a piece of the Pi, and for over 40 years the Big Muff Pi has been defining the sound of rock guitar. Revered by contemporary guitarists and rock legends for its rich, creamy, violin-like sustain, from Pink Floyd to The White Stripes, everyone still wants a piece of the Pi!
and the schematic used for the layout
why????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeletewhy are you doing this to me?!!!
i already have 4 big muffs!
enough is enough!
i turned in to boxing my build last few weeks, but with this i'll start building again...!!!
thanks man!
Hi, which Q (2 or 3) is referred to 1st and 2nd gain stage?
ReplyDeleteQ1 is the input stage
DeleteQ2 is the first clipping stage
Q3 is the second clipping stage
Q4 is the recovery stage
Thanks so much. Keep up that work.
DeleteDid anyone mod a BMP w/ Ge-diodes?
ReplyDeleteI'm planning to. No idea when I'll get to it with everything else I want to build though.
Deletelook at the pharaoh. it's basically a modified big muff, and has a switch for Ge, Si, and no clipping diodes.
DeleteThanks. Good idea to check out. Wonder why I didnt came up with it myself. I built it a while ago.
Deletefor your comming stomp;
ReplyDeletehttp://i60.tinypic.com/vn2gzb.png
http://i58.tinypic.com/9fxspd.png
everyone still wants a piece of the Pi!
ReplyDeletejajajajajaj
Is this the v9?
ReplyDeleteNo idea :o)
DeleteI've posted the schematic I did the layout from above
Yup. It is V9, which may have any of the following circuit board revisions:
DeleteEC3003 (2000), EC3003A (2000), EC3003B (2007), EC3003C (2008), EC3003D (?), EC3003E (2013). From: http://www.kitrae.net/music/big_muff_history3.html
+m
I'd say it's pretty typical for EHX to have the same effect with 6 revisions :) Collector's dream.
Delete+m
What the h**** is EC3003.... ?
DeleteThat's the designation EHX has given to "V9" circuit board design. All the EHX boards have some sort of designation code on them.
Delete+m
Thanks. I learned so much stuff from this forum. No honestly: this is a nice place and as i always say: this will be my LAST built.
DeleteBy the way: did anyone build the first ehx green russian layout. The one with that bunch oft electrolytics in it. Sounds like a reall angry troll with sustain for all eternity and back!
Just to clarify: This is the latest available version of the big box nyc big muff, and also the one inside the "tone wicker" model. NOT the V9 NYC "reissue" from 2000
DeleteYou can easily bring it back to a more standard nyc big muff by jumpering the extra cap (C16) before the tone section (never included in any other big muff, and noted on the schematic) and by changing the 2,2uf (C7) on the 2nd set of diodes to a 1uf (it's tradition that both caps connected to the diode sets are the same value (both 1uf in the reissue) but here they differ) Both very strange choices for the big muff circuit and the sound is a bit more bassy, sludgy and muffled. Still sounds big.
This was my request, thanks alot!
That's exactly what i meant by "collector's dream". EHX is the most evil brand for anyone who collects factory made pedals. One person who has the authority (Kitrae, for a reason) to set widely used version numbers to different versions does use V9 as designation for all the big box revisions since 2000. I even think most people refer to "NYC Reissue" when talking about the current version..
DeleteI think Mark could revise the layout for EC3003A and post it as NYC Reissue/LittleBMP/Nano :) I believe those are the only changes between the board revisions since 2000. Not sure if Little and/or nano have the same circuit as rev. A or rev. C though.
Like i said. Evil brand.
+m
miro. i think the little BMP is different then the normal one. i've heard that it's not all analog, but never really opened it up to see. i can tell the difference between the V9 and the little. the little BMP actually sounds a little less full, sorta smaller then the normal BMP, at least to my ears. it's not bad, just different. if you want, i can take some pics of the board top and bottom, as well as some readings for the caps and resistors if you want to get a working schematic and eventually a layout.
DeleteGreat work!
ReplyDeleteSo far I only have built a civil war big muff and also a Screddy pink flesh, I may end up making a couple other flavors and this one to add to the pile LOL... Can never have too many muff variants in the pile! hahaha
Would a bc547b work in this layout? I'm not entirely well versed in reading the datasheet but, I'm trying to learn.
ReplyDeleteYes they'll work. Different transistors may give you differences in response but they'll certainly work. The B transistors are generally lower gain than the C
DeleteHere's a mod for you.
ReplyDeleteIf you find the muff hissy, try putting a 1n314 germanium diode in parallel with d4.
I've modded a few, I just soldered the 1n314 onto the legs of d4. Put it in the same orientation as d4
The problem is that if you put a germanium diode in parallel with D4, you crete asimetrical clipping, and tame the Big Muff character, not just get tid of the hiss.
DeleteAnd not for you, but for all "modders" that change this circuit to make it "better":
A Big Muff is noisy, hissy and generates insane feedback, that's hor this effect works. If you don't like it, build some other pedal, or some ot the hundreds od clones that there are in the market. I've been ordered along the years for an insane amount of vintage speced BMPs, because they sound as they should, not "refined", "without noises", "no hissy" and so on.
When you build a BMP with a modified gain stage, including asimetric clippin and germaniun diodes, you're not building a BMP but something different. I may sound OK, but is NOT a BMP.
Regards
Like Mark often says: this is DIY, and for this you can do like it sounds good for you. I would go with the noise reduction mod too, at least for the green russian (first version) and the black one the result is great. My green russian sounds almost angry like before, but without any noise and a little less feedback. Didn´t know that with the 1n314 it is assymetrical clipping, but i thing the character is still the same. You can socket d4 and so here the difference.
DeleteYes, this is DIY, but this is a BMP NYC, and this effect never have had asimetrical clipping in a stage, even less with a germanium diode.
DeleteIf you want to reduce the hiss, the usual way is to slightly increase the 470pf caps, not too much, becuase you'll lose some hights, no to change the clipping stage into an asimetrical one, besides with a germanium diode, with a 100% higher forward voltage and a more than noticeable volume drop. Just have to check the Cornish G2, or the Hoof, to see how a BMP circuit is changed into something that barely reminds the sound of the original pedal.
If you want to reduce the background noise, you can play with the stability resistor and the filtering cap.
Is different to say "Hey guys, a nice change to this pedal sound, is to place a germanium diode in parallel with d4, getting asimetrical clippin in the stage, so you'll get a smoother sound at the expense of lower volume, and besides, you'll get rid of some hiss" to "Hey, to reduce hiss, you just have to put a germanium diode in pararallel with D4" because this is WRONG information, and this change is not just to reduce the hiss.
If you show to a good musician a pedal with this mod, he would tell you something like "Hey man, that sounds good, but this is not a Big Muff" Why do you think that many people prefer to pay someone big bucks in order to get a Triangle speced build instead of buyin' one of the million commercial clones that you can find on the market?.
J.
Sorry I didn't mean to offend you guys. I thought maybe some folk would like this info.
DeleteFrom what I see, people put up changes and mods here for others to learn from.
Whether it be changing clipping diodes to LED's, or changing caps to get different tones.
Yes I like to tinker with things. That, I find is a good way to learn.
Like when my main drive pedal died, which was based on an MXR Distortion plus.
I decided to take my MXR and do mods on it, to get it like my Blessed by Distortion.
The MXR is unusable live i found, due to the volume drop. I done the Wampler mods, and it sounds better than stock, and my Blessed by.
Anyway, try this if you want. If not, you're not missing much anyway.
You haven't offended anyone buddy, if you like building something a certain way then go for it. You should always try your own thing with these builds because you always have the potential to like the results more
Deleteagreed. i think all javi is saying is that changing component values can still keep the effect essentially the same as the original, but once you start to change things like the clipping section, you're actually changing the effect to something different. case in point, the HOOF or PHARAOH, are based off the big muff, but the changes made to them, clipping section, major transistor changes (the HOOF has 2 Ge transistors in place of Si), they have evolved into something new. it's not bad, just different. so i wouldn't call either of them BMP's anymore.
Deleteit's an interesting mod, and super easy to try. so thanks for the idea. and yes, we all tinker with circuits a lot, and you can't be wrong about learning through modding. it's how i started getting into building. keep up the good work buddy.
I think I found it from Jim Photon (he posts here, that's not his name, but something like it). It came from my mate asking if i could quieten his. So I modded mine, and he a/b'd his and mine and wanted the mod done.
DeleteI never even checked mine before and after to see the difference.
If I'm doing mods I like to record it through me pc (less variables if it's DI'd) then a/b the results. Just my PC's not working just yet.
I'm wanting to try find a mid control mod. I've seen folk make these, and as we know, muff's aren't very mid happy. That's why I have a switch to take the tone out, and use a graphic eq instead.
My muffs I use for recording, and my Creepy Face for live.
Is there an email to send in a trace of my creepy face? I see you guys have the Si one, mine's is the Ge one.
It is just a fuzz face with a trim pot for bias, plus a switch and pot for variable bias. The only other difference is a larger cap for more bass, well so Brad told me.
Cheers, and keep up the good work. It was this site that got me into building.
Just post it under the request section. I know someone was looking to build one, and I'd be happy to make the layout as soon as I see the trace.
DeleteI have a v9 I got off the bay. I went from never playing a muff to loving them. I cloned a green russian and I own two Black Russians and the v9. I will probably build this soon to compare. I also wanna add that I love this community and I've learned so much from mark and miro and I wanna say you guys are gods among men. I've been meaning to thank you guys for awhile I've build about 20 pedals from this site and I've learned a lot from you guys and other people on this site I hope it continues to grow I need more pedals to build!
ReplyDeleteSecond that!
ReplyDeleteFinished the pedal after getting in some BC550Bs. Sounds amazing! Thanks so much, Mark! I also got in some BC239 trannies and will be trying those out as well.
ReplyDeleteConsider this one verified!
Fantastic, thanks for verifying
DeleteOn the parts, the 10n capacitor says 5% ceramic, am I correctly assuming the 5% is the +/- tolerance of the capacitor?
ReplyDeleteI'm having a bit of trouble with this pedal. For the life of me I can't figure out whats going on...
ReplyDeleteThe issue seems to be around the sustain section. When the sustain pot is fully closed, no signal makes it out unless I play really hard. Then what comes out is super farty. It almost sounds like the pedal is being turned off and on really quickly. At any other sustain setting, it sounds amazing until I hold a note for long. Toward the end of the note, it breaks down and turns to poo. The same happens if a play a note really softly.
The pedal sounds awesome, but its unusable because I can't hold a note for too long. I really hope somebody can help me out!
Check your transistor pinouts and knife the gaps.
Delete+m
Yeah I did that already, it's all good. I'm considering just doing a rebuild. Can anybody confirm that their build sounds good when the sustain pot is turned fully down?
DeleteI think I've got the same problem. When i trace the signal, it was lost at the input stage. Right before 1uF capacitor. I've done some parts change but it didn't work.
DeleteSo have you figured it out yet?
Hi, same problem. Any solution ? Any idea?
DeleteHi, was wondering if you had figured this issue out. I have the same problem. Thanks :)
DeleteHey there, I noticed on the other muff layouts there is the additional option of adding in a flat/scooped/boosted mids switch. I was wondering if that option is possible with this layout? If it is, where would the sw1 wire connect to the board? Would the other wire then connect to tone 3 like the other layouts? Thanks.
ReplyDeletePut a 3n3 in parallel with C9
Deletevery noisy (
ReplyDeleteHi. Still a little new to everything so I apologize if my question comes across as dumb. im having trouble finding out where the output goes. I saw you said Volume 2 is output, so does that mean I go straight from the V2 lug on the Pot directly to the output jack?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSo I was doing this schematic with 2n5088s, checked the pinout, and couldn't get it to run still. My problem was at first tranny. After days and days of frustrating work, I decided to breadboard stage one of a new schematic after failing to breadboard the first stage of this one. I chose the Iron Bell, which lacks the 2m2 resistor to ground on input and that seemed it might have fixed it.
ReplyDeleteHow is everyone else getting this to run if that was my problem??
Umm.. That's just an input pulldown and it has zero impact on the circuit behaviour. It's before the input cap too, so the transistor doesn't even "see" it. Pulldowns just make the ground potential available for the switching, so the possible pop sound is killed. So no. That can't be the issue.
Delete(on a side note, layouts are more like build documents, not schematics)
+m
R25 not connected is very suspisious for an industrial product (in particular if resistor is present)... for me the +9V power supply shall be connected to R25, and thus, the rest of circuit is powered after R26/C15 (not directly by +9V). The group R25/C14/R26/C15 is a kind of filter for power supply.
ReplyDeleteAnyone else studied this point?
Thank you for this great site.
ReplyDeleteI built two and both have no output but bypass works fine. So I guess I'm shorting to ground along the way. I've been looking at it for the last two days and both board looks ok. I will look further more. If you have any ideas where to look, I would appreciate greatly. Keep up the great work!
Built this with ceramic caps, BC550B's and metal film resistors. Nice pedal that delivers the tone I've been seeking when used with my Strat. But I have a problem. When idle this pedal has a constant buzzing noise (a bassy one) which can sometimes be heard while playing. It increases when I turn the sustain knob cw or the tone knob ccw. Volume knob doesn't really affect the noise. I ran through the rails a few times with a boxcutter and a small screwdriver so I dont think it's a short but if it is, where could it be? Or if it's a faulty component, which one could it be?
ReplyDeleteI know what I'm asking for is almost impossible but I dont have enough components around to build from scratch again and won't be able to buy some soon.
Thanks
Does the hum sound anything like the hum heard in the first 4 seconds of this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCm0VcMYv04
DeleteThis guy uses a real Big Muff, and has the hum in lots of videos. I think it could be due to the power supply or possibly even the single coil pickups. Does it hum when you use two pickups at once or on battery power?
Yes but a fuzzier, more disturbing one. I don't use a battery but I use the same 9V adapter for my daisy chain of a TS9 and a Deep Blue which i made. I don't have a noise problem with those but big muff is noisy when used alone too.
DeleteIt doesn't matter weather you use film or electrolytic. They're both the same value: 470nf. I'd just use film caps. They're more rugged and longer lasting (will sound the same though).
ReplyDeleteYou may also notice that C2 uses a 1uF on the schematic but the layout has a 100nf film cap (far left beside "Volume 3" wire). You can use either really, as they're both large enough to pass the signal. Russian Big Muffs use 100nF and they have plenty of bass.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHello, this is my first build. I have a question regarding C15. It is in the parts list but not on the layout. Has anyone built this pedal without it? I guess it acts as a filter for the 9V?
ReplyDeleteC15 is just a power filtering cap just like the C14. you don't really need 2 of them that large. C15 is filtering the power right onto the board and C14 is filtering R26.
DeleteOK, thanks for the reply. I'll give it a shot without that cap.
DeleteCheers!
Hello, does anyone know where to find C7, C16 (2,2uf electro 24v) or how it looks ? From the local electronic store they gave me a 2,2uf tantalum, but it's not electrolytic and has no polarity. Need help with this issue.
ReplyDeleteThank you!
tantalums are polarized and should have a + by one of the leads. 2.2uF electrolytic caps look like any other electrolytic caps. they're barrel shaped and will have one side marked as -. they can be either axial (lay down flat) or radial (stand up tall).
DeleteThx! so the next question...can I replace the C7, C16 (electrolytic) with this tantalum ?
Deleteyes. personally i don't like tantalum caps. they can be finicky. if you can, just grab some 2.2uF electrolytic caps. they're super cheap, are used a lot, and can be easily found online if you can't get them locally, which i'm not sure why you couldn't.
DeleteWell, last night I did some reading about tantalum and electrolytic, I saw that it can be replaced, without problems. Zach thank you for your help and you're right 2,2 uf electro 24v it's a pretty common electronic piece. Don't know why the store was out of stock.
DeleteI finished the pcb soldering and wire and I've got the same issue with the Sustain pot. Sustain kills the volume. Did anyone solve this problem?
ReplyDeleteAny ideas? What can it be ?
Hi! Did you ever figure out what the problem was? I have the same issue. Thanks
DeleteI'm trying to build this right now and I'm stuck. Why are there four 1u caps on the layout but five 1u in the parts list and schematic?
ReplyDeleteThanks, Kris
Oh and what did people decide about R25?
ReplyDeleteR25 is not connected to anything, it’s just part of the original circuit board I believe. Just ignore it in your build.
ReplyDeleteFor the capacitors, it seems that the layout has some changes after the sustain pot, around C5, omitting that cap. Not sure why the changes were made, but it may not really change the sound, looking at the circuit. Can’t say for sure though.
I have two big muffs and I want to mod one so that it oscillates similar to a fuzz factory or a supersonic fuzz gun. I have tried adding a wire between emitters and collectors of both Q2 and Q3 and it makes it sound interesting just not what I'm looking for.
ReplyDeleteAny tips or recommendations?
The big muff oscillator mods form a feedback loop which usually won't be as reactive or unpredictable as the oscillation on a fuzz factory or Supersonic Fuzzgun, which are somewhat weird circuits. You could try looping feedback to Q1 too, which may make it behave differently, but I can't say. Been years since I've tried the muff feedback mods.
DeleteCould also just build a Supersonic Fuzz gun. Be sure to use MPSA06G and BC517 transistors, as I and others mentioned in the comments. Sounds pretty much just like the demos.
Verified!! Hell yeah , very muff sound … today im trying with 2n5088 and bc549c to see the difference
ReplyDeleteVerified!!!! Sound amazing … today I’m trying with 2n5088 and bc549c to see differences
ReplyDeleteit would be great to hear how your test results came out :)
Deletebesides being grateful for the layout,
DeleteI really appreciate that even the schematic is attached, especially this time, when so many versions exist :)
version 9 EC_3003 REC C :) :) beautiful!!
and the schematic next to it!
perfect!
with a great parts list...
speaking of which:
it is remarkable that the 470nF caps are supposed to be electrolytes (!)...
and the caps at the TONE section are ceramics... and within 5% :)
I'm sure that in any other case most of us would go for the better caps, and that would be it...
but in this reconstructive project it seems wise to at least try the "original" types...
any of you tried ceramic caps for C8, C9?
Firstly - giant thanx for all on this site!!!
ReplyDeleteQuestion ( hope for help): in most cases of BigMuff schematics, clipping diodes are connected between plus of 1mF cap and collector of Q2 (Q3).
Here - between minus of 1mF cap and base of Qw (Q3). Does it works the same or some difference in sound?
Thanx!
for faithfulness' sake only, as The Great Gaze mentioned it in 2017:
ReplyDeleteC2 between Vol3 and Q4's Collector is
1uF 50v
(not 100nF)
- - - -
THIS layout is BEAUTIFUL!
all 470p caps span span 2 rows,
transistors are symmetric, and this symmetry makes sense...
film caps all span 1 row,
and no resistor goes wall to wall...
and the number of cuts is below 20 :)
perfect! :)
Thanks for the info and for your comments about the layout. There are a few layouts I've done like the newer Tubescreamer you commented on the other day which just flowed really easily and everything seemed to fit into place perfectly. These were definitely the most satisfying ones to do
DeleteHello. I'm new on this. 470n electro caps were replace with ceramic ones?
ReplyDeleteVery nice, great sound! Did a mistake and took me a few days to figure my mistake, but i guess the more you build it is getting easy to find my mistakes
ReplyDelete