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Sunday, 6 July 2014

Diamante Compressor

I'll add a Diamond Compressor layout at some point, but this one was a must for me and I'm surprised it's taken me this long to do the layout.  This is Fred Brigg's stripped down version of the Diamond, which is essentially the same but without the Tilt EQ section of the circuit or the (admittedly funky) colour changing LED depth indication part.  As someone who tends to leave EQ around the middle default setting anyway this made perfect sense for me, and as the omitted sections added a lot to the circuit size, and now with only two pots, it means it will be an easy one for a 1590B.  My rack tray thanks you Fred :o)

The other thing Fred changed was the input buffer which is now opamp instead of BJT, but the main compression part and envelope detector is as per the original and so should be comparable.

The circuit uses a VTL5C3 Vactrol which is 10M off resistance.  I'm not sure whether you will get a low enough on resistance with a 10M LDR and LED combo, but by all means give it a shot and let us know how you get on.  If you do want to try an LED/LDR instead, just use the points shown where the Vactrol is connecting.  Right hand side is LED with cathode at the lower connection, left side LDR.

Read more about it on Fred's page here.  I can't find a video of the Diamante, so here's the Diamond to give you an idea what to expect







[15th July 2014 addition]

And this is a modified version to include the tilt eq.  I have kept it true to Fred's Diamante philosophy and swapped the BJT buffer used in the original for an opamp buffer, using the second channel of the opamp added for the eq.  Because the tilt eq is inverting I made the buffer inverting too so that the output will be back in phase.  This won't matter to most people but thought that if maybe a bass player wanted to use this with a blend circuit, then having the output out of phase could cause cancellation issues.  I noticed before that the original tilt scheme from the 70s preamp also has an inverting buffer, so this is also in keeping with that.

So this one is basically an all opamp Diamond Compressor, just omitting the funky LED

[updated 11th Nov 2014]

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74 comments:

  1. Ross6 July 2014 at 02:02

    YES! I have been waiting for this one for the longest time. I have everything on hand except the VTL5C3 (but I think Tayda LDRs should work), and will try to get this one checked out ASAP.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IvIark6 July 2014 at 02:33

      If you do have any LDRs then socket the position and give them a whirl. It would be great if we could get a similar sort of response out of the pedal with a 3p LDR that we could with an expensive vactrol.

      Delete
    2. Unknown6 July 2014 at 20:08

      I just ordered some 5C10 and 5C6 vactrols from a lameo site with $10 shipping. Didn't order any 5C3s though. Any chance either of the ones I have on hand will work alright?

      Delete
    3. Unknown6 July 2014 at 20:34

      5C10s are only 400K at full dark, 5C6s are 50M. Looks like I'm ordering some 5C3s from small bear.

      Delete
    4. Ross9 July 2014 at 02:00

      So I did some research, and the GL5539 LDRs are very similar spec-wise to the VTL5C3 (10M off, 30-50K on). I have ordered them (20 for $5), and will get them by the end of the week. We shall see.

      Delete
    5. Ross13 July 2014 at 20:19

      Tag it, and we have another winner here. This is just a really great sounding optical compressor, super transparent, works equally well with guitar and bass. I used a homemade Vactrol consisting of a 3mm yellow LED and a GL5539 LDR, and it works perfectly!

      Delete
    6. IvIark14 July 2014 at 00:28

      Awesome Ross thanks for verifying :o)

      Delete
  2. glasspak736 July 2014 at 02:38

    I have a PC123 Sharp,will this work for my vactrol?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IvIark6 July 2014 at 03:08

      No I don't think you can use it, the PC123 is an LED controlled transistor, you need an LED controlled resistor like a vactrol or LDR/LED combo

      Delete
  3. glasspak736 July 2014 at 03:46

    oohhh ok i see now.thanks

    ReplyDelete
  4. Unknown6 July 2014 at 18:28

    Mark.
    Do you think this is better than the pig phil tone?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unknown7 July 2014 at 05:15

      i didn't like my phil tone....

      Delete
    2. IvIark7 July 2014 at 10:59

      I've never used a PT so can't answer from experience, but a lot of people have said the Diamond is the best compressor they've used

      Delete
  5. Digadadave8 July 2014 at 01:37

    Any chance we could get a daughter board for the tilt EQ? It sounds interesting and I would love to try it out on this and other builds.

    Thanks for all the great layout IvIark

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Travis9 July 2014 at 01:52

      Check out the revolutiondeux post on the Diamond Comp and he's got the schem for just the tilt EQ by itself there

      Delete
    2. a.9 July 2014 at 17:35

      In the forum area of this site, John K. posted a vero layout of the tilt. It's awesome!

      Delete
    3. Digadadave9 July 2014 at 20:59

      Thanks a.! I feel a little Canadian when I say that out loud.

      Delete
  6. Goldenmonkeycolor3 August 2014 at 18:10

    So i thought i had vtl5c3's lying around but they were actually vtl5c1's. I tried using some LDR LED combos but the circuit keeps blowing up my LED's. any ideas?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Goldenmonkeycolor14 October 2014 at 22:07

    Okay- I got this one working with a home rolled LED/LDR combo and it works, but it has some strange fluttery sounding pumping, throbbing almost tremolo with a low depth effect on the sustain- this increases as I turn up the compression. I got some VTL5c3's and it makes this problem worse, but the circuit now distorts with the VTL5c3's. I've gone over the board a million times now over the course of 2 months and cannot find anything. So how do these voltages look

    IC1
    4.45
    4.45
    4.03
    0
    4.24
    4.45
    4.45
    8.92

    IC2
    4.43
    4.43
    4.43
    0
    4.25
    4.12
    4.45
    8.92

    The collectors on the transistors show 6.93v each
    The vactrol shows 7.62v on pin 1 and 8.91v on pin 2 (LED - and + respectively)

    no voltages on any other pins of the transistors or LDR side of vactrol.

    Anything look weird there?
    Thanks for all the help you give! I know this is the 2nd problem circuit ive posted in a row and i apologize. i'm trying to get this and the delay working cuz they're driving me nuts. out of all my problematic boards these two are soooo close and theyre the circuits i soooo desire. deep blue and diamond comp.....mmmmmm.....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IvIark14 October 2014 at 23:36

      IC voltages look perfect. Have you tried other LEDs and LDRs?

      Delete
    2. Goldenmonkeycolor16 October 2014 at 21:38

      ive tried two different VTL5c3's- but they distort. and my homemade optocoupler gets this fluttery thing going

      Delete
  8. IvIark11 November 2014 at 09:37

    If anyone has built the Diamante Plus and had problems, move the EQ3 wire one row up. DOH!
    Layout now corrected and verified by Miro

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unknown5 January 2015 at 17:17

      Doh! This just got me and I came here to post that the plus wasn't working... I can double verify it after making the EQ3 wire adjustment. :)

      Delete
  9. The Hudsons5 December 2014 at 21:24

    Hopefully this is not super obvious but should I use a momentary or latching switch for this build?
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IvIark5 December 2014 at 23:46

      The switch selects whether the hi cut is in circuit or not. If the switch was momentary then the high cut would only be in circuit as long as you were holding the switch which would make it fairly pointless, and so you would always use latching for something like this.

      Momentary switches are used very seldomly in these layouts. For something like tap tempo or switching through modes in some more advanced ICs then they are used a couple of times. But always assume latching unless momentary is specified in the layout.

      Delete
    2. The Hudsons8 December 2014 at 15:36

      Awesome! Thank you so much!

      Delete
  10. The Hudsons11 February 2015 at 21:42

    I finished this build and love it!! Thanks again. It seems to work fine but I don't notice any difference when I hit the hi cut switch. Is it really subtle and I am just not hearing it? Also, I occasionally get some radio frequency sounds. Anything I can do about that?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IvIark13 February 2015 at 10:04

      The switch just add a cap to ground at the output creating an extra low pass filter. If you want a more dramatic effect, socket the 2n2 cap and increase the value until you get the response you want.

      Delete
  11. Unknown16 April 2015 at 15:26

    HI,
    just finished this comp. Work at the first time !!!
    It is the best comp i've never seen, heard ! :)
    I love it ! very simple to use…

    Franck

    ReplyDelete
  12. Unknown29 April 2015 at 14:31

    What is the LED+ line coming in on the right side of the board for?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Zach29 April 2015 at 21:36

      that's for the + side of the led to connect to. the negative end goes to the switch. some layouts have a resistor for the led on the board, but most do not which is why you see the LED wired the way it is seen under the offboard tab.

      Delete
  13. JUAL KRIPIK SINGKONG1 May 2015 at 09:18

    Hi iviark

    Already build this..againn..and this is awesome,,3mm yellow led and LDR is good enough , Oh yaa, hi cut switch is really subtle,,but i was try to connected hi cut SW 2 to "volume 2" , and yeahh,,hi cut is work ,,damnn. thanks for your layout

    agung M

    ReplyDelete
  14. motterpaul24 May 2015 at 23:17

    Hey, I happen to have some GL5539 LDRs - So I am going to give this a shot.

    Just FYI: since Jan 2015 you can still find many new layouts in the forums:
    http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/

    ReplyDelete
  15. motterpaul25 May 2015 at 22:26

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  16. motterpaul25 May 2015 at 22:29

    I got this built and the LED is working. My first LDR burnt out (I think, not sure why), but I replaced it but I am still not getting any output. When I do an audio probe I get good sound all the way to the 10n cap (lower left). on its left leg it sounds great, but on the other side it is all lower volume and very distorted. That means everything feeding the 2n5088s is also distorted.

    Now, I am not sure if I could move the LDR back (away from the now 3mm red LED) and make the enclosure darker and that would fix it, but it does not seem likely. That 10n cap just seems wrong. I also have to say I don't have the LM358 so I was using a TL072 instead (I think a TL062 would be better if I had one because it is "low output" where the 072 is "low noise".)

    Anyway - depressing. The Love Squeeze sounds better by comparison. I figured out the Love Squeeze is not so bad, if you turn down the "compression" know you really just turn down the input to the diodes but they still compress, they just don't break up so much.

    Anyway - if you are reading this and wondering where everyone is hanging out, try the forums (as of Jan 2015): http://guitar-fx-layouts.42897.x6.nabble.com/

    ReplyDelete
  17. motterpaul26 May 2015 at 03:05

    I finally figured out my problem. The volume pot lug three has TWO connections - one to switch and one to ground. I missed the connection from the pot to the switch. I guess I just figured I had all three lugs filled so I was done.

    Anyway - this compressor sounds perfect now, even with humbuckers. No hair at all even at full volume; on the effect and on my pickup. That is how I like it. The LDR/LED setup was actually easy.

    ReplyDelete
  18. motterpaul5 June 2015 at 02:08

    I actually got the correct IC (LM358) for this today and my guess was pretty accurate, the TL072 pushes it a little too hard. It sounds cleaner now. I also added n HPF on the output which makes it sound a little brighter which is always nice for a compressor. It helps.

    I just added a DPDT switch (from the volume pot #2) and put one side straight through, and on the other sides bridged the poles with a 10n cap tied and added a 63k resistor from there going to ground.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Unknown18 October 2015 at 07:36

    Building this and found a handwritten schematic on Briggs site. Decide to play around and make another schematic. I believe this to be correct with the build and any errors are mine and any correction welcome. Associating the schematic with the build helps me to figure the circuit and what it is doing out better.

    https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B87ADm67wAAYUWo3RXVYaFB2MzQ&usp=sharing

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. clive.hawnt@gmail.com24 March 2016 at 16:03

      I think this schematic has an error. The two 10K voltage dividers in the top LH Corner say they output "ENV" but I think it should read "VB" . Which, BTW is how Fred Briggs has drawn it. A small but vital error I reckon!!

      Delete
  20. Patrick8 December 2015 at 22:13

    Would anyone know how to implement that cool LED? thanks :)

    ReplyDelete
  21. Patrick8 December 2015 at 22:14

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  22. mcferrison8 January 2016 at 11:06

    Hey, I built the Diamante Plus version. It seems to work, but there is some nasty clipping at high compression settings. It's becomes more if I add a boost in fron of the comp and it sounds like, it's after the tilt eq, cause it also depends on the eq setting. I'm wondering, where it comes from and how to adress that. Do you have an idea? Might that be the vtl5c3 or the 100uF cap, cause it's only rated at 25V? Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. mcferrison10 January 2016 at 13:54

      I figured out, that the clipping is gone with a cheap power supply which I measured about 12-13Volts. Also the compression seems to work better (more pronounced/strong in a good way). Just the comp poti doesn't seem to work right, cause the compression seems to be fixed. It just changes the input gain. I'm going to change the diodes/transistors - might be some faulty one - don't know. Do you have some Ideas? Thanks.

      Delete
  23. EK18 February 2016 at 11:50

    Hello.
    i built a couple of this diam comp ( honestly i used the sabrotonelayout, but that doesn't matter ). Both of them are "working" in the same way:
    - eq switch working
    - all pot seems working
    - hi cut isnt working ( but i didn't tried this solution posted before:
    i was try to connected hi cut SW 2 to "volume 2" --> i'll check

    the real problem is: i have the same results with and without the optocoupler :|
    compression led is engaged everytime i touch the guitar ( with a stronger signal as i turn on the comp knob ). so, seems to me that the compressor is working.
    i'm not exeperienced with optical compressor, i'm glad if someone could explain me how this magic could happen.

    ( i'm gonna try to make this layout as soon as i can, just to check the differece )

    thanks in advance

    edwin

    ReplyDelete
  24. Mr Newton20 February 2016 at 06:31

    Hi
    I'm Building the Diamante plus for the EQ option, but I,m wondering why there is an EQ switch at all, also, the numbers relating to the DPDT do they run left to right going down, or do they run down 123 left and 456 right side. Hope someone can clarify that please.
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  25. Unknown20 February 2016 at 19:22

    Hi! If i want to build this for bass. Is there any changes you can do to make it fit a bass better?

    Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  26. Beaker21 February 2016 at 11:28

    Have a look here:

    http://vulcanofx.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/diamond-bass-compressor.html

    And here:

    http://revolutiondeux.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/diamond-compressor.html

    ReplyDelete
  27. mcferrison24 February 2016 at 11:10

    Hey Guys,
    Since my diamond comp still distorts at high comp settings I took the multimeter an found this: at the highest comp setting the voltage difference between the two led pins(vtl5c3) is just 1,53V at a very high input signal (telecaster bridge - heavy hitted low strings)
    That's quite low right? If there would be a higher Voltage, LED would be brighter and than there would be more compression and less distortion. Any Ideas, what could be wrong? I really checkt everything for hours and couldn't find something wrong. Any help would be nice! Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Britton Brandy11 March 2016 at 01:53

      Also experienced the same situation as yours, however only with humbuckers. with my strat its works without a slight gain as it should but i noticed that the comp works more like volume or gain knob instead. maybe try other types of led. I used a 3mm diffused yellow led, might try a clear one.

      Delete
  28. Unknown25 May 2016 at 22:32

    What capacitors do i change to change the freq of the tilt eq? Want to make it like the bass version with 250hz and 900 hz tilt point.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Merhulsky26 May 2016 at 14:23

      anton, look here http://vulcanofx.blogspot.de/p/tilt-eq-calculator.html

      Delete
  29. Convergent Sound17 December 2016 at 22:03

    I also had distortion at high compression settings running it from a 9v power supply. When I run it at 18v, it clears it up. Just an observation.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Unknown18 January 2017 at 22:50

    With 2n3904 instead of the 2n5088 I eliminate the problems of distordion to maximum compression

    ReplyDelete
  31. Unknown11 April 2017 at 12:52

    Awesome layout, thank you for all your hard work. My question is in regards to using this as an outboard compressor during mixing. Can this be used for such application or does it require any tweaks to work properly?

    ReplyDelete
  32. Unknown23 April 2017 at 13:11

    Does anyone have any ideals regarding any changes so that I can use this as an outboard mixing compressor? I would greatly appreciate any suggestions please

    ReplyDelete
  33. Unknown8 May 2017 at 11:18

    I have built simplified version without Tilt EQ section.
    Is there any way how could I add some lost highs in highier comp settings? Some switch or something?

    ReplyDelete
  34. Unknown21 May 2017 at 12:38

    Hi, anybody know where can i find layout of this compresseur, because
    i'dd like to make my PCB …

    Thx
    Franck

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous30 April 2018 at 21:57

    Hello. if I would like to have the eq always on, how do I wire it instead of the dpdt?

    Best Regards
    Johan

    ReplyDelete
  36. Andre15 June 2018 at 21:54

    Hey, I built this using the suggested components. Subbed in 1N914's. but that shouldn't matter. Used the VTL5C3 work-alike from Small Bear.

    It works fine EXCEPT there is a fast flutter going on. It seems to be compressing as expected underneath the flutter. Less like dirt and more like a really fast trem.

    I know a couple of people have mentioned something like this above, but no solution has been mentioned.

    Voltages all seem reasonable:
    8.18V on the V+ pins of the IC's.
    3.8-4.11 on the other opamp pins
    GRND where it should be.

    Collectors have 6.78V
    Bases a few millivolts
    Emitters at GRND

    About a 1.43V drop across the Vactrol LED.

    It's really like there's too much gain somewhere internally causing the Vactrol to pulse, or something.

    Anybody else with this problem solve it?

    Thanks
    -Andre

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Andre17 June 2018 at 21:44

      FWIW: This was caused by the VTL5C3 "work-alike" from Small Bear. I subbed in a GL5539 along with a yellow LED and it works fine. Not sure why the work-alike, didn't, but whatever.

      Also changed the hi-cut cap to 3n3 since I couldn't hear the effect of the 2n2, but I can't hear that either. I know my hearing is missing a lot of highs, so I'll just leave it there for now.

      Also this circuit is really helped by an anti-pop circuit on the led.

      Delete
  37. MetalGearKusanagi27 July 2019 at 03:37

    does anyone have a picture or video of their completed diamante plus i just want to get an idea of what im getting into. Thanks guys

    ReplyDelete
  38. dullman7 May 2020 at 21:44

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  39. dullman8 May 2020 at 16:47

    Hey, what about Comp 3 ? Unless I'm completely blind this lug is empty, is it normal ? Thanks !

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IvIark8 May 2020 at 23:42

      Yes the Comp pot is just acting as a variable resistor rather than a voltage divider. You can link Comp 2 and Comp 3 if you really want to (as you will see sometimes in these circuits) but it's not absolutely necessary

      Delete
  40. dullman9 May 2020 at 15:07

    Hi, thanks a lot for the answer !

    So no particular point in linking Comp 2 and 3...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. dullman9 May 2020 at 15:19

      Also, still on the first circuit (without tilt EQ), does the LED reacts to the compression as in the original pedal ? LED + wire is there to go instead of the usual +9V wire, and the - lug of the LED goes to its usual place on the switch right ?

      Delete
    2. IvIark13 May 2020 at 01:58

      Well it doesn't do a great deal but it does give you something of a failsafe in theory. If you connect 2 to 3 then if the wiper of the pot fails in the middle of a song, the circuit will still be complete with the full 100K resistance of the pot between pin 1 and 3 still in circuit. If you only connect the wiper and it fails then they'll be a break in the circuit between the 6k8 resistor and the IC output which will stop it working. So if you want the added protection just add a link between 2 and 3.

      In reality it would only let you finish the song you're playing as you probably wouldn't want to continue your full set with the compressor control maxed and no control of it.

      The reason it wouldn't really bother me is because t's extremely unlikely a wiper will fail out of the blue when you're playing through it rather than due to mechanical stresses applied when you're adjusting it. If it fails in the most likely circumstances when you're adjusting it, then you wouldn't use it without changing the pot anyway so the failsafe is pretty moot.

      The LED+ wire is for a basic indication LED only and so yes that wire will go to the anode, and the cathode will go to ground via the stomp switch. The LED/LDR combo are the optical components for the compressor. This won't have the funky LED of the original Diamond Compressor.

      Delete
    3. dullman13 May 2020 at 17:10

      Alright, thanks a lot for all these infos ! Everything is much clearer now.

      Delete
  41. cringe14 May 2020 at 14:34

    Getting the trem flutter with the comp pot over about 25%. Any suggestions on a remedy? I might back off the 5088s to 3904s but I'm just guessing. Glad it works though.

    ReplyDelete
  42. cringe16 May 2020 at 12:14

    I'm back with no joy. I've swapped the 100R for a link and upped the cap to a 470uF and ran it up to 17.7vdc. Sadly the fluttering is still there and the distortion may be a little worse. I may try the LDR and LED. I'm glad I socketed the vactrol.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. KG14 April 2021 at 17:09

      Try a different vactrol. I tried 4 different solutions, and what gave me the better results is a DIY vactrol using GL5516 ldr + 3mm green led.
      No more "flutter" (enveloppe ripple, I guess), no more distorsion.

      Delete
  43. Tom21 October 2022 at 01:56

    Built layout #2. I actually had the proper vactrol, but it seemed to be defective or broken. So I pulled it and started experimenting with what I had. I have a big box Diamond Comp so I compared. I got pretty close with a KE-10715 LDR from Tayda and a 5mm red diffuse LED. Thanks for the layout as always.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Tom21 October 2022 at 17:10

      I'm getting a strange tittering sound that I thought I'd eliminated by swapping vactrols. Almost a fast tremolo or stutter. It seems to reduce as the compression control is trimmed a bit. I can't seem to get rid of it.

      Delete
    2. Tom24 October 2022 at 07:31

      KE-10715 LDR and a 3MM red diffuse LED seems to work well. I also noticed that lower HFE 2n5088's reduced the stuttering effect quite a bit. HFE 300 or so did it. It doesn't compress quite as dramatically as my big box version of the DC but it sounds pretty great. I played for a good hour through it (always a good sign). Thanks guys.

      Delete