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Thursday, 25 April 2013

Frantone Cream Puff

Original unit has relay based switching and 1000µ filter cap. This layout is done with the circuit in tact, but omitting the original switching, LED and filtering is replaced by 470µ cap. Our "standard" polarity protection is in place and i've also added 1M resistor to prevent popping from the standard true bypass switching.. Tone 2 and Volume 3 connect together, there's a dummy connection for those on the board. Sounds nice now doesn't it? The pedal i mean..



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69 comments:

  1. IvIark25 April 2013 at 20:07

    Hee hee. Two willies! :o)

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    1. mirosol25 April 2013 at 20:22

      Had to tweak it get them both in there :P
      +m

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    2. Anonymous25 April 2013 at 20:43

      Haha... who said men never grow up!

      Delete
    3. Dave26 April 2013 at 11:02

      Lol love the way it had to be the largest possible value resistor in there too, magnitude is everything right? Cant wait to build this, thanks for the layout, sounds like the 90's in a pedal.
      Thanks
      Dave

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    4. Madferret26 April 2013 at 14:17

      A big pink 'puff' with a circuit covered in schlongs? Hahaha, perfect. It sounds excellent by the way, definitely going to try this one out.

      Delete
  2. Dave26 April 2013 at 17:58

    Is the 470uf cap absolutely necessary or could we omit filtering? also would a standard jrc4558 work, im assuming it will....
    Cheers
    Dave

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    1. IvIark26 April 2013 at 18:30

      We just tend to (usually) show the cap used in the original, but there is no reason why you have to go that high providing a smaller value is sufficient for you and your supply. At the end of the day if you aren't getting noise then you may not need anything at all, whereas some people may need a bigger value to do the trick. I don't think I've ever used a bigger cap than 220u and even that is probably overkill.

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  3. Dave27 April 2013 at 12:58

    Cheers Mark, will probably give a 100uf cap a go then rather than wait for a 470.
    Cheers
    Dave

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  4. zosotone29 April 2013 at 13:57

    Nice! thank you guys for this layout!!

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  5. Beaker2 May 2013 at 11:09

    Hi guys, has anyone verified this one yet? I've just finished building it but I'm not getting anything out of it apart from a piercing osccilating whine when the volume knob is maxed. I'm pretty sure everything is correct.
    The only alteration I have made is to use a 100uf output cap.

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    1. mirosol2 May 2013 at 11:43

      You probably mean the filter cap..

      I'll double check the layout once i'm back home. Meanwhile you could measure voltages of the IC and probe where the signal dies.
      +m

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    2. mirosol2 May 2013 at 14:54

      Just checked it over and i'm confident about the layout. Feel free to compare this to Bajaman's schematic...
      +m

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  6. Beaker2 May 2013 at 18:48

    Hi Mirosol, I've got this working now (had a ground issue),and it sounds awesome. However the "Fluff" control does not seem to behave quite how it should. From max down to half way it seems to work as it does in the video demos, but as I turn counter clockwise it acts like a gate, finally cutting off the signal altogether just before minimum. Do you have any ideas what could be wrong?
    Even as it is the gating effect sounds great!

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  7. Beaker2 May 2013 at 18:58

    By the way you are right - I meant the filter cap.

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    1. mirosol2 May 2013 at 19:48

      So i figured :)

      There could be something wrong with the first gain stage (the left side of the opamp). Double check everything there - the fluff control acts sort of an volume control of how much signal is passed from first gain stage to the second.

      If you want to tweak it, you could up the 1K5 resistor coming from fluff lug 1. I would try something like 27K to 47K in its place.

      But. Seems like the layout works, so i'm tagging it. Thanks Beaker!
      +m

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    2. Beaker2 May 2013 at 20:10

      You could be right, the two LED's on the right of the board light up brightly enough to use them instead of a LED indicator, but the two on the left barely flicker (although that could be normal).
      I've probed everything and I'm getting good voltages from both sides of the IC.
      I'll check everything again, and try the resistor tweaks if I'm still getting problems. I'll let you know how I get on.
      Many thanks,
      Mark.

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  8. Beaker2 May 2013 at 21:54

    Ok Mirosol you can definitely tag this as verified.

    After triple checking the left hand side of the board and finding nothing wrong, I replaced the 1.5k resistor to "Fluff" 1.

    I had full sweep on the pot with a 15k and tried values up to 68K, before settling on 27k. This gives some angry spit and sputter on minimum, that disappears into creaminess by the time I turn up to 2.

    Maybe a trim-pot here might be a useful addition to allow people to tune the "fluff" to taste?

    By the way it can NAIL the guitar tones on "More Than A Feeling"!

    Thanks again, I really appreciate it.

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    1. Dave3 May 2013 at 21:08

      I built this today and have encountered the same behaviour, are we sure the original schematic was verified?
      Thanks
      Dave

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  9. Beaker3 May 2013 at 22:49

    I'm thinking the original schematic has a mis-print, i.e. the 1.5k should read 15k. I can't find the original schematic anywhere, so can't check it. If anyone has a link to it that would be helpful. However swapping the 1.5k for a 27k sorted things out, and I'm REALLY loving this pedal - so much so that I can't stop playing it long enough to get it boxed up yet!

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  10. Dave4 May 2013 at 14:38

    Hmm I replaced the 1.5k with a couple of higher resistors and it doesnt seem to be making any real difference, I've gone as high as 68k and still the behaviour is the same.
    Thanks
    Dave

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    1. Dave5 May 2013 at 22:47

      Anyone any ideas? Had another fiddle with this circuit but I'm still not getting any signal below about 12 on the fluff knob.
      Thanks
      Dave

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  11. Beaker5 May 2013 at 23:20

    That is odd. Although I had the same issue, it was only the last fraction of a turn down to minimum (from half past seven down to seven o'clock)on the fluff knob. like I said,swapping the 1.5k resistor sorted things out.
    I hope you get yours sorted Dave. Hopefully someone will come up with an answer soon.

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  12. amo7 May 2013 at 19:05

    HI, I replaced the 1,5K with higher values. 1,5M works without the gating effect.

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    1. Dave7 May 2013 at 19:39

      Interesting, I will investigate.... thank you for sharing your experience.
      Thanks
      Dave

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    2. Dave7 May 2013 at 22:52

      Yes, thanks to Amo my cream puff is now creaming and puffing as it is supposed to, sounds fantastic.
      Thanks
      Dave

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  13. Beaker7 May 2013 at 23:15

    Good news guys, I will try some different, much bigger values and see how they affect the sound.

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    1. Dave7 May 2013 at 23:25

      I'm pretty sure Amo is spot on with 1m5 being the stock value, upping this I think would just increase the amount of gain.
      Thanks
      Dave

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    2. Beaker7 May 2013 at 23:38

      Yes I know what you mean, but bear in mind that I got mine working with a 15k, and it currently has a 27k. I'm certainly going to try values up to 1.5 Meg - I'm really curious to see what it does to the sound.

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    3. Dave7 May 2013 at 23:55

      Do you get the range of gain seen in the video demos? I mean 27k is vastly different from 1M5 so I wonder how our two circuits differ for yours to work with the 27k and mine not to.
      Thanks
      Dave

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    4. Beaker8 May 2013 at 00:13

      With the 27k I seem to get the same range of "gain" on the fluff knob, from about 9 o'clock up to max. Below that it starts to gate slightly giving some sputtering at minimum.
      As to why my build works with a far lower resistor value to yours and Amo's - I haven't the faintest idea!

      Delete
  14. amo8 May 2013 at 07:33

    Mine is working with lower values too, but with the gating effect below 12 o clock. The more I increase the value, the more the effect disappears.

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  15. Unknown18 May 2013 at 00:18

    Thanks for this layout - I've been hoping for this one! Looking at the schematic, the 10uf cap going to Fluff 2 is - negative to Fluff 2, and positive to the 2.2k resistor - also, the capacitor on IC pins 6 and 7 is shown as 390 pf. Is this correct?

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  16. Unknown20 May 2013 at 20:22

    I built this up as per your layout and encountered the same problems that others here have been reporting - so I made the changes described in my last post, (reversed the polarity on the cap between Fluff 2 and the 2.2k resistor - and changed the cap on IC pins 6 and 7 to 390pf) and the problem is now gone - and this is without changing the 1.5k resistor that others have replaced with higher values.

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    1. Beaker20 May 2013 at 23:24

      Thanks Frank, I've just finshed painting my enclosure for this, so I will try these changes before I drop it in and see how it goes.

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    2. tinkercreak21 May 2013 at 00:38

      nice one Frank.

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    3. Unknown21 May 2013 at 14:16

      This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. Unknown21 May 2013 at 14:22

      If you're a member, you can view the schematic here -

      http://tinyurl.com/Baja-Pream-Cuff

      Delete
    5. Dave21 May 2013 at 14:52

      Hmm, maybe I will put 1.5k back in and try this fix then, cheers for the heads up!
      Thanks
      Dave

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    6. tinkercreak22 May 2013 at 13:02

      This comment has been removed by the author.

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    7. tinkercreak22 May 2013 at 13:21

      Tone2/vol3 are connected to the board right next to a cut. So they're not connected to anything on the board. Should that cut be there? Or was that just meant to indicate that tone2 and vol3 are connected together?

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    8. mirosol22 May 2013 at 13:26

      That's something i tend to do. They just need to be connected together. I call that a "dummy connection" - and i do it because i personally hate daisy chaining pots. That makes my builds look sloppy - so i want to have all pot connections on board.

      I guess i'll need to add "there's a dummy connection on board" info to the images more often if one is present.
      +m

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    9. tinkercreak22 May 2013 at 13:50

      More like a "dummy" question from me. Just making sure before I threw it together. Thanks man. Enjoying the layouts you do here.

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  17. Beaker22 May 2013 at 18:23

    This comment has been removed by the author.

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  18. Beaker24 May 2013 at 22:41

    I have now got this boxed up. I have listened carefully to the video demos on my studio monitors and have decided that Miro's layout is correct, apart from the 1k5 resistor issue. Using a 1M resistor I can get this to sound almost exactly like the demos.

    However, the changes that Frank suggests sound different. It works, and works well but sounds smoother and bassier, but "duller". it's like putting a duvet over your amp.

    Miro's version definitely sounds better to my ears.

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  19. Unknown25 May 2013 at 03:12

    Hey Beaker, it's great to hear that you've been playing around with both ways. Have you had a look at the schematic posted at FSB? Mirosol said that we should compare this to Bajaman's schematic - and when I did, I noticed the two differences that I'd mentioned. There are even gut shots of a real Cream Puff posted, and you can see the component values and the 1.5k is there. I admit that I don't have enough understanding yet, about how changing components around affects the circuit - I'm a schematic "connect the dots" kind of guy! Maybe Mirosol can chime in and let us know how he came about with those two cap changes? Thanks!

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  20. Dave19 September 2013 at 10:56

    Hi Mark and Miro
    I finally revisited this build today and used Franks corrections as he commented above. They work perfectly and I feel my build is now spot on to the original, just though you may want to correct the layout when you get a spare moment.
    This is one hell of a fucking pedal btw, just awesome.
    Thanks
    Dave

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    1. mirosol19 September 2013 at 12:08

      I'll be revising this soon(ish). The gutshots cover up the resistor from Fluff 1 with a label, but it is stated as 1K5 on those shots. Maybe i'll just swap the value vfor 1M5, as many of you report that it works like the demo with 1M5 instead of 1K5.

      The 100p is a copy/paste error, and the 10µ is in reverse. I'll fix those...
      +m

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    2. Dave19 September 2013 at 13:06

      I think it sounds more like the demo with the 1k5 and the two changes Frank described but yes it did work and sound very similar with the 1m5 instead, strange.
      Thanks
      Dave

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    3. mirosol19 September 2013 at 13:30

      Strange is a good word. I don't think the vref voltage getting to Fluff cap is killing the cap that quickly. But if the cap orientation and value for the ceramic solves it.. That's how i'll update this.
      +m

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    4. mirosol20 September 2013 at 17:07

      Updated. Reversed the 10µ and swapped the 100p for 330p.
      +m

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    5. Unknown22 September 2013 at 17:22

      Yeah, looking at the gutshot pic, it's hard to view the color code on the 1K5 resistor as the last band is almost entirely covered up - I had to zoom in on that resistor to see the little bit of brown that is peeking out. So I feel confident that the value is Brown, Green, Red, Gold = 1K5. Thanks for the update!

      Delete
  21. Beaker21 September 2013 at 19:31

    I've just changed my pedal again to match this "new" layout. Sounds great - slightly different to the old one withe 1M5 resistor, but not as "wooly" as when I tried it last time.
    I'm now thinking I may have done something stupid like using a 330 nano cap instead of a 330 pico. Wouldn't have been the first time...

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    1. Beaker23 September 2013 at 14:52

      I'm still not done with this thing yet. I accept that the newly modified layout is correct - many thanks Miro, but somehow still preferred aspects of the tone I was getting out of this thing with the 1M5 resistor/ 100p/ and 10uF wrong way round, so I have been tinkering...
      That 330p cap shifts the frequency range of the tone control and to my ears at least, 220p gets the most pleasing sound out of this pedal, so guys, socket that one and tweak away!

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  22. υποδούρειος λίππος9 March 2015 at 22:32

    it's a great sounding puff, how ever the output is too low on my build.
    the leds on the right side light up when i am playing, but not the ones on the left.
    are the ones on the left supposed to light up too?
    my voltages on the IC are (out of a 7,73v battery) :
    1: 2.59
    2: 3.75
    3: 3.70
    4: 0,00
    5: 7.51
    6: 2.60
    7: 3.79
    8: 3.64
    D3 light up when i was measuring some of the pins.
    is this an indicator of a grounding problem?

    regards,
    george

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    1. Beaker9 March 2015 at 23:15

      Left hand LED's do not light up, so that is normal.
      Mine has LOADS of output, so something is wrong somewhere.
      Stick with it - it's worth it!

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    2. IvIark9 March 2015 at 23:29

      Something very peculiar here, you have different voltages for pin 3 and 5 and yet they are connected directly via the two links under the IC. I think you're going to need to check placement of those links and/or the soldering

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  23. υποδούρειος λίππος10 March 2015 at 08:20

    ah, thanks i'll check what's going on under those pins, later tonight.
    and yes, it's definately worth it, even at 20% of the estimated output i am amazed by the sound.
    regards,
    george

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  24. υποδούρειος λίππος10 March 2015 at 18:59

    oops, i am terribly sorry yesterday i posted the last 4 pinouts in reverse. the correct voltages are:
    1: 3.59
    2: 3.75
    3: 3.70
    4: 0,00
    5: 3.70
    6: 3.77
    7: 3.60
    8: 7.54

    i will reflow them anyway and see what happens.

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    1. υποδούρειος λίππος10 March 2015 at 20:50

      there is something weird going on with my build. i can measure 4.01V from output (volume lug 2). i am not a genius in electronics, i think that outout is about audio signal only, no DC current passing by, right?

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  25. υποδούρειος λίππος12 March 2015 at 08:16

    finally i got it working!
    the 1uf Cap above the 8pin of the IC was off. it was acting like a jumper cutting out most the output. probing with an axial cap from the +side of the cap or from the upper sides of D3 or D4 to the 20k resistor i can get a hugh output.
    the only thing i need to look out is an oscillating sound when fluff is at max. setting, but since i am on the creamy side of the puff, i don't mind that much.

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  26. Unknown2 March 2017 at 06:35

    anyone know where this layout was derived from? A schematic or gut shots? If so, where can I find them?

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  27. Mr.Baiser29 May 2017 at 10:12

    How does this sound combined with a Tube Screamer? And which pedal should be first in the signal chain? Could somebody who owns both pedals do a demo please? I'm asking, because it would be fun to build both circuits on one board, using a RC4136 quad opamp. I did s.th. similar with TS-9 and SD-1 before: http://musikding.rocks/index.php/Image/351-TSD-91-Dual-OD/

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  28. AlexS25 December 2017 at 19:41

    This comment has been removed by the author.

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  29. AlexS25 December 2017 at 19:54

    The schematics I've seen have a 10k to ground right after the input 33k resistor. Placing one as a standing resistor in rows 5 and 6 should take care of that.

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    1. Mr.Baiser25 December 2017 at 20:09

      A 10k to ground would kill your guitar signal. Maybe the original pedal had a buffer circuit that was removed with the relay bypass switching?

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    2. fuzzhead25 December 2017 at 20:21

      It's wierd, but it's works fine with a 10k resistor to ground before the op amp, it sounds terrible without it.

      Delete
  30. Tom17 April 2021 at 07:21

    Dear sweet Jesus this thing sounds huge. Very Muff-like. Love

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  31. Tom17 April 2021 at 07:22

    Dear sweet Jesus this thing sounds huge. Very Muff-like. Love

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  32. Tom17 April 2021 at 07:22

    Dear sweet Jesus this thing sounds huge. Very Muff-like. Love

    ReplyDelete