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Monday, 7 January 2013

MXR Noise Gate

Geiri has worked his way through with this and he offers couple pointers to enhance it, or to get it working better. So with these mods this one should get this running like intended. (I'll be fixing the layouts tonight..)

1. Important - the 2n3904 (I used 2N5088) must be matched. I made them exactly the same hFE.
2. Change 680R to 4.7K (gets rid of the oscillation problem)
3. The 1M that's going from JFET Gate (the one that goes down to the second last row, change it to 1.8K
I don't think the hFE matters, as long as it's matched. I haven't tried lower hFE. Mine are medium/high.. can't remember
Changing the 1M to 1.8K gets the level back to normal
 


First, the stock version with only the sensitivity/threshold control (it is called sensitivity in the Tonepad project files):


Then the highly modded one. With added controls for Attack, Release and Attenuation levels. Also, added momentary single pole stomp switch - This one acts as a momentary kill switch for gate.




at

91 comments:

  1. rudeez13 January 2013 at 16:58

    finished the modded version and i guess you can tag it. although attenuation might be in reverse depending on how you like things, it mutes more and more the more you turn it counter-clockwise.
    im also unsure about the knobs, attack and release dosnt seem to do that much for me, might be my ears to. sensitivity does nothing really and attenuation gates the signal more and more. will prob strip it down to the unmodded version.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. rudeez13 January 2013 at 17:23

      setting the noisegate last in chain the sens works better as well as the rest of the knobs but it lowers the volume to much there. you loose alot of power.

      Delete
    2. mirosol13 January 2013 at 19:06

      Great! Thanks redeez! I'll tag it right away.
      +m

      Delete
  2. André25 May 2013 at 20:08

    I was looking at the schematics and it looks like the Sens 1 1k resistor is connected to ground instead of Vb as shown in the schematics. Which one is correct?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. mirosol26 May 2013 at 17:07

      You're right. There was an error. I fixed it for both versions with little tweaking.
      +m

      Delete
  3. Thommo15 June 2013 at 08:43

    Hey guys, I finished the stock version the other night, then I came here to check a few things(as I do) and realised I must've printed the layout before it was changed. Anyway, no big deal! I changed my board around without a fuss but it still isn't working the way it should be. I cranked the gain on one of my pedals to get a bit of noise going and the pot did nothing up until about 2o'clock, where it seemed to cut some of the noise. But up to that spot and after it, the control seemed to be doing nothing. I'm quite confident that everything is where it should be and there are no bridges etc. Here are my voltages. Battery: 8.79v

    Q1 C 8.75v B 4.48v E 4.08v

    Q2 E 0.00v B 0.47v C This one swings from 4.23v at min, then turning the pot up to 2o'clock voltage goes down to 0.02v then back up to 4.23v for the rest of it's travel.

    Q3 D 4.96v S 4.96v G 4.34v

    IC(RC4558D) 1 4.94v 2 4.96v 3 4.96v 4 0.00v 5 4.23v 6 4.43v 7 4.43v 8 8.73v

    Anyone got any ideas? I changed the pot thinking it might be faulty but the result is the same with the new one.

    Cheers, Thommo.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Geiri25 June 2013 at 17:47

    I just built one and it works but it has a squealing sound. I'm gonna see if i can figure out what's wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Geiri27 June 2013 at 14:01

    This layout need to be updated. Here's what you need to do to get it working:

    1. Important - the 2n3904 (I used 2N5088) must be matched. I made them exactly the same hFE.
    2. Change 680R to 4.7K (gets rid of the oscillation problem)
    3. The 1M that's going from JFET Gate (the one that goes down to the second last row, change it to 1.8K

    After that, the squealing went away, the gating is normal and the level is right. I've only made one with these changes but I'm about to build another one. I'd like to hear from others if it worked for them as well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. mirosol27 June 2013 at 19:58

      I could probably add a modded layout, but with those changes it's no longer one with the schematic.
      +m

      Delete
  6. Thommo28 June 2013 at 08:48

    I realised I had Sens 3 & 1 around the wrong way(Doh!!). So I changed them around, matched my 2n3904's and changed the resistors as suggested. Still there is no gating at all. When I switch it on there is no change at all to the original signal, no matter where the pot is set.

    Thommo.




    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Geiri28 June 2013 at 20:24

      That's strange. Have you checked the pinout for the JFET? Try swapping them out with others to see if there's any change.

      If you take out the JFET, the signal will still go through, so try taking it out while the guitar is playing and see what happens.

      Delete
    2. Thommo1 July 2013 at 09:11

      I tried your suggestions Geiri and the only thing that happened is that I got some kind of weird low fart noise that rose in pitch, that just kept on repeating itself. lol I'll check my board over again. There must be something I've done wrong somewhere. I just haven't found it yet :)

      Delete
    3. Thommo1 July 2013 at 10:21

      I'm at a bit of a loss with this one!! Same with the Cook reverb.

      Delete
    4. mirosol1 July 2013 at 13:16

      Hmm.. This and that reverb seem to be uncrackable. Errors in available schematics maybe? I think no one would mind if i take these both down?
      +m

      Delete
    5. Thommo2 July 2013 at 09:14

      Yeah, not a problem mate. No point flogging a dead horse(circuit)...lol. Just wondering if you had a look at the voltages I posted for the Cook reverb? I might re-check them.

      Delete
    6. André4 July 2013 at 16:12

      Mirosol, I must say that without this vero layout I wouldn't be able to buil mine. I sugest you put some warning instead of thake it down. Other option is to "tune" this thing regardless the schematic.

      Delete
    7. Andy Miller30 April 2020 at 12:43

      7-year thread-bump! Just built this. I was getting the same issues as Thommo, but for some reason I have a whole lot of 2N5952s, so I socketed that and started swapping them. It works now. Every JFET I tried in there works a little differently.

      Delete
    8. Khart12 June 2020 at 02:36

      Y does it look like the 1uf cap by the ic goes in a cut?

      Delete
  7. André4 July 2013 at 16:07

    Mine works realy good but I've made some changes.

    I cann't remember all the changes, but I've got them wrote down at home.

    I replicated the input buffer to get the "sample" from the guitar input and "cut" at the end of my gain chain (4 jacks, Input, send, return, Output)

    I also used trimpots in place of the "critical" resistors (1M to the gate, 680R frim OpAmp and 150K for release) to find the best value.

    I used a 1uF tantalum instead of the 1ufNP.

    I belive I've done one or two more changes but I need to make sure.

    It helps if you test the circuit inside a metal box, of course...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cristian4 February 2019 at 06:38

      Hi, what's the orientation for the 1uf tantalium?
      Thanks!

      Delete
  8. Geiri4 July 2013 at 23:56

    I've built this twice now with those two component changes and they worked fine right away.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unknown13 January 2014 at 04:53

      Hey Geiri,

      Just built this one up using the changes you suggested, and I get some gating, so I know it's doing something. I used 2n5088s like you did, I also used a TL072 and a 2n5485 in place of the regular components.

      My problem is I'm getting a pretty low output level. It also seems to boost my treble quite a bit, not sure what that's about.

      Any ideas as to why I may be getting such a weird volume/treble issue?

      Thanks,

      Jacob

      Delete
  9. Jarrett Trezzo22 July 2013 at 20:37

    Is that 1uF electrolytic really supposed to go into where the cut is?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. mirosol22 July 2013 at 21:32

      Over the cut. That's one of the reasons i wanted to take this down.
      +m

      Delete
    2. Jarrett Trezzo4 August 2013 at 06:12

      Thanks, got it working just fine with this info and the other info stated. A little awkward with the 1uF there but I don't see any reason it should be taken down, it works right. Might want to add a note about that capacitor or update the layout to show it though.

      Delete
    3. mirosol4 August 2013 at 08:34

      Think i'll update it at some point...
      +m

      Delete
    4. END OF THE LIGHT19 November 2014 at 07:07

      Hi excuse me but i cant understand this over the cut thing. Does it means on the same strip but to the left of the cut? This would make sense, as the positive side of the cap would be affecting whatevers at the left of it. Please let me know because i skipped one column to do this and i really would like to know if it is correct like this as i wouldnt want to throw everything away. Thanks if you would kindly let me know, maybe as Jarrett said, add a note..

      Delete
  10. Unknown21 January 2014 at 23:04

    What would be the best way to add an in/out for use with the fx loop in your amp as well as using it in front of the amp simultaneously? This would isolate the preamp reducing the most noise.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Unknown6 February 2014 at 11:02

    Hi,

    I can't get pot to work. I did all the changes and revers them, but nothing. When I engage pedal it works but it cuts down the volume, and pot is not working and not doing nothing. I changed few of pots but nothing. When I remove (I have socket all of them) jfet sound is even with pedal other pedal but pot is still not responding. I have changed few of jfets bu nothing. Does anyone have any idea?

    P.S. There are no solder bridges. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  12. zha rikudo26 February 2014 at 15:31

    can I replace 2n5952/2n5485 with other FET ?? please help me

    ReplyDelete
  13. Tkrain15 November 2014 at 21:04

    The axial 1uF between the 1M and 100k (7th Column), just verifying that should be a ceramic/film type and not an electrolytic? (just gotta find one)

    ReplyDelete
  14. Unknown30 November 2014 at 21:37

    I built this and it works great, I used 2n3904 and 2sk168e for jfet. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Cinek5 December 2014 at 22:10

    Hello, I build this box and it`s ok, but I have problem whith switch, wenn I push on/off is heard a loud bum!!! Anyone has any solution??? I use offboard wirnig :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ξεναγός νεκρόπολης6 December 2014 at 10:10

      there is already a 2.2M resistor from input to ground to prevent this.
      but you could try some other things.1)
      change your LED.
      2)try an other 3pdt switch cause it could be faulty, or
      3)check your supply. do you use a regulated supply?like boss or something?

      Delete
    2. Cinek6 December 2014 at 14:18

      I tried this things, I delete Led, change switch & use 2,2M and nothing changed.
      I don`t now what is wrong :(

      Delete
  16. Unknown15 December 2014 at 18:32

    Hi all. If no momentary switch is used do I simply disregard the connections to it?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Barcley28 December 2014 at 18:37

    Hello everyone.I think its mistake conect MBP2 to Atack 2&3.It does not make sense.MBP1 is o.k.When the switch is open(normally)the same as it is not there.When the switch is(ON)MBP2 switch must be connected ground to 100R resistor.I am so done and all is well.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Unknown28 December 2014 at 19:46

    Hey all

    My question is this; does the 1uF cap near the Attack and Release pots need to be non-polarized (as stated in the schem at tonepad)?

    ReplyDelete
  19. Barcley28 December 2014 at 20:49

    Chris,these caps must be polarized.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unknown28 December 2014 at 23:03

      Understood - however, like I mentioned, the schem on tonepad specifically mentions that one 1uF is non-polarized.

      See here: http://www.tonepad.com/getFileInfo.asp?id=77
      Otherwise if folks have built it here per the vero w/out the NP, then that's cool and would like to know that too.

      Delete
    2. ξεναγός νεκρόπολης29 December 2014 at 01:39

      it won't make any difference at all.you can put in there anything you got.
      i did this in many circuits with no thinking at all, and all worked.(using 1uf polarized or non..). you just have to be sure when you're gone use a polarized in place of non-pol for+ - ..

      Delete
  20. Barcley29 December 2014 at 16:21

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Barcley29 December 2014 at 16:39

      Chris,only non-polarized is cap 1mf that parallel with resistor 100k.The underside of the bridge leads to transistor Q1 to base.From the top via to resistor 22k to IC1(number 4 is Vcc-) and trough cap 47n direct to IC1(number 1 is output 1) and resistor 1M bridge leads to IC1(number 2 Invert input 1).All other caps 1mf are polarized electrolitics.
      I do not agree with comment ElGrecos.(sorry,i do not know to write your name).

      ReplyDelete

      Delete
  21. j2 March 2015 at 12:33

    Am I suppose to connect the 4 leg from the ic to the long link? Just trying to understand the whole double link thing. Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IvIark2 March 2015 at 12:36

      Yes. To the right hand side of pin 4 there are two wires soldered in the same hole. One going up, one going down

      Delete
  22. j8 March 2015 at 04:02

    I want to do the Attenuation level mod only. How would I go about doing something like that thanks

    ReplyDelete
  23. BRAVEWOLF13 April 2015 at 15:06

    Hola a todos... quiero saber si ya estan confiables las 2 versiones de los veroboard del noise gate para hacerlas o todavia hay problemas y no funcionan???? y el que lo haya hecho por favor confirmeme el 100% de su funcionamiento

    Hello everyone ... I want to know if they are reliable and the 2 versions of veroboard the noise gate to make them or there are still problems and do not work ???? and you've done please confirm if 100% of its operation

    ReplyDelete
  24. BRAVEWOLF13 April 2015 at 15:08

    quedo atento y pendiente a la ayuda que me ofrezcan

    stay tuned and outstanding support offered to me

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. j13 April 2015 at 22:40

      I built the mxr noise gate and the dsp decimator. If iI had to do it again I would build the dsp.

      Delete
  25. j13 April 2015 at 22:37

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Unknown2 October 2015 at 22:05

    Hi! Thank you for your work) Can you make layout of electro harmonix silencer?

    ReplyDelete
  27. tertiumsquid11 October 2015 at 23:05

    Mine works well after the mods and matching the 3904's (within 1), but the gate doesn't release smoothly when it's set fast. The gate will open and close as my guitar note decays. Not a problem if I slow down the attack and release a bit. Any ideas, or is this the nature of the beast?

    ReplyDelete
  28. ernesto7 November 2015 at 16:50

    It works and eliminates the noise but
    i hate that decay it begins to cut so fast the signal
    can you help me please i have done all the mods but i´m using a 2n5485
    So hope someone could answer something

    ReplyDelete
  29. Beaker7 November 2015 at 19:16

    That is exactly what it is supposed to do. It will chop of the signal when using a massively loaded, hi-gain sound to prevent squeals and feedback as soon as you stop playing or release the strings - think shred metal.
    The trick is to use it in exactly the right application, and set the threshold at exactly the right point to prevent feedback, but not chop off the note too quickly. It WILL take you some time to ind the correct setting.

    ReplyDelete
  30. ernesto8 November 2015 at 01:47

    No matter whet the pot is set the E and B strings haven´t sound and the other ones at the end it always produces like if it cut off the signal like
    laaaa-cut-aaa-cut-aa....

    ReplyDelete
  31. Unknown17 December 2015 at 02:09

    Build this today. I've got lots of 3904 and tryed matched and no matched, and in both cases this works. For Q3 I used 5485 instead 5952. I did what Geiri said and changed 1M to 1.8k and level now is ok. Running low with 4.7K, so I changed 680R for 8.2K and it just worked fine with no oscilations or any other problems! Boxed in a 1590B. Best regards from Brazil!

    ReplyDelete
  32. israroot1 March 2016 at 23:50

    the resitor of 2.2k is not connected to the ground

    ReplyDelete
  33. Unknown21 March 2016 at 10:04

    Do I connect the 1mF Electro Cap (3rd row, approx middle, marked horizontal) under the leg of the 100K resistor..?
    As there is a cut where it is in the schematic now to attach the positive side...
    If so, can/can not thouch each other..?

    I did a test run, but getting no sound through, I think this might be my problem...

    ReplyDelete
  34. NHTMF8 April 2016 at 08:06

    Hi will using a 2n5457 work in place of the 5485 or 5952?

    ReplyDelete
  35. Unknown16 August 2016 at 17:23

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Unknown16 August 2016 at 17:23

    Hey,

    What do you guys mean by matching 3904's ?
    Does it mean that you have to change other components or trying different 3904's? All 3904 aren't same ?

    ReplyDelete
  37. Ja17 September 2016 at 13:14

    I build this pedal but pot not working?

    ReplyDelete
  38. Unknown4 October 2016 at 14:28

    Does this pedal work for bass guitar as it is or does it need modifications? thanks

    ReplyDelete
  39. Unknown28 October 2016 at 09:57

    I've build the modded Version to use it on my Bass guitar. The problem is that the pedal cuts away the low end. I've loked for any mistakes but I can' find anything. Do I have to adjust the entry filter for bass becaus they are adjustet for guitar, or any other Idea whats wrong ?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Unknown23 January 2017 at 21:53

    This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Unknown28 January 2017 at 21:55

    Can I substitute the 2n5952 with the a J201?

    ReplyDelete
  42. Unknown12 March 2017 at 18:26

    Built this one and it sounds really good. I was worried at first as I thought it was filtering the low mids, but I think its ok now Ive played with it for a while.

    I did the full mod version, but found the attack, release and MBP did not really enhance the noise gate use, but the Attenuation is a really great addition.

    I recommend keeping the Attenuation mod and scrapping the rest. This needs you to build it as per the mods board but retain the bottom right (2 row; rows 16/17) link; you need to move it to the end of the row, (where the Attack feeds are in the full modded version). you will also need to replace the other 2 row jumper that connects attenuation 1 with row 13 (where release 2/3 are in the full mod version)

    Excellent - thanks; it will go in a comp/NG/boost box

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous13 May 2017 at 15:32

      really appreciate that mod info, dude, thanks

      Delete
  43. Unknown18 September 2017 at 20:41

    I used Geiri's mods and Shaun Martin's suggestion of only using the attenuation mod on my build. https://puu.sh/xCWQD/28d0711755.png is the modded layout i went from.

    I actually had something mildly interesting happen with mine. Upon first test my bridge pickup was working correctly, but my neck pickup was making a "fwoff fwoffsh fwosff" noise that was very loud and I couldn't figure out why. I tested other guitars and the problem was localized to this one, so I opened it up, and while i was still getting sound the neck pickup wire was hanging by a thread. I just thought it was interesting that no other pedal had issue with this. so I had no idea it wasn't working fully.

    I bought a bunch of different transistors to play with in a big muff (pink flesh specifically) and measured the HFE of every single one to get the best match I could. Turned out that it was a pair of ~200 HFE 2n3904s. I don't know if my cheapo meter's HFE is calibrated, but I figured as long as they matched on the meter it would be ok, and it seems to be.

    I don't have a ton of noise gate experience, but its pretty meh at low gain and soft playing, atleast mine is. It sounds awkward even with a weak gate, perhaps I just need to play with it more. If you want to hammer out some super tight metal riffs its great though, so thats what I'll use mine for. Quick demo here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JJtU06Ud-Y

    I boxed mine in a 125B from tayda. Pictures here https://imgur.com/a/UlQ1O

    Thanks for the layout Miro and for the suggestions Shaun Martin and Geiri.

    ReplyDelete
  44. segenk22 December 2017 at 16:09

    just finished the MXR NG, using 2SK30A for the fet. It works. thnx for the layout.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Unknown8 March 2018 at 23:29

    Hello, I have a question about the plate,
    What are the squares with a red dot inside?
    Thank you

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kris Thorsheim29 April 2018 at 01:02

      Those are cuts in the copper tracks. Usually made with a small drill bit twisted by hand just a few times.

      Delete
  46. chuk3 June 2019 at 07:24

    this layout verifit??

    ReplyDelete
  47. tertiumsquid1 November 2019 at 00:35

    Mine works great, been using it for years now, though it adds a bit of a fuzzy distortion to the signal if I don't have some sort of buffer in front of it. Works great in the effects loop or after an SHO with unity gain.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Remi3 January 2020 at 21:45

    Seven years later... I traced the Tonepad schematic. Almost embarrassing to ask but shouldn't the 2.2M resistor at input go to ground. Hint - see the break on the ground rail strip 3 hidden under the 1uF capacitor?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Elijah-Baley4 January 2020 at 09:34

      Indeed! That 2.2M is connected to the ground just through the 1uF cap. It seems a mistake, pretty weird. The thing was already said in a comment above, but it was ignored.

      It should be easy move the 2.2M resistor from the input to the pin 4 of the IC stripe connecting it to the ground.
      I never built it, but could the layout a bit messy with the impedance with this "mistake"?
      Maybe is for this tertiumsquid1 need a buffer in front to make work it better.

      Delete
    2. Unknown22 January 2020 at 05:01

      Mine doesnt work at all! i replace the JFET transistor to a 5457 and doest nothing

      Delete
  49. Remi22 January 2020 at 19:29

    Mine works beautifully. If you are substituting transistors or op amps from those listed in parts list, you will need to make changes to resistors to maintain correct biasing. I cannot tell you what those will be. For the 2N5485 FET, you will need to make changes as stated in the red text at the beginning and carefully note orientation. For what it's worth, I used TL072 op amp and matched 2N5088 bjt.s. 2N3094 matched bjt's also worked but tone was not as warm. It still works with unmatched bjt's but the release oscillates. Make sure the 2.2M resistor is between input and ground. The stripboard layout is wrong.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wahyu eko19 June 2020 at 15:19

      Why did I make it when the 3pdt on dug sounded. I have given an additional 1M R input to ground or output to ground but still. Can anyone help me?

      Delete
  50. Sensei Tim12 June 2020 at 21:52

    another observation:

    the tonebad PCB and schematic do not match.

    The PCB shows a 47p cap between pins 1 and 2 on the IC. This might help with oscillations if you experience them.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Wahyu eko19 June 2020 at 15:19

    Why did I make it when the 3pdt on dug sounded. I have given an additional 1M R input to ground or output to ground but still. Can anyone help me?

    ReplyDelete
  52. LP19 August 2020 at 23:53

    André mention adding a send and return jacks to his build, but not much details on how... Can anyone explain how to do that?

    ReplyDelete
  53. Jun d31 March 2021 at 04:42

    The layout is verified,. It works fine. I used a 2sk118 jfet. Jun. Rockin from Philippines. More power!!

    ReplyDelete
  54. Jun d31 March 2021 at 06:25

    The modded version is verified. It works and i dont need to alter anything. Its the mbps that is wrong. It does not seem to fit wt the schem. Do it works. Greetings fro Philippines. Jun.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Jun d6 April 2021 at 04:40

    The non polar 1mf cap in parallel with 100k res is supposed to be 10nf not 1mf guys.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Jun d17 October 2021 at 08:44

    In my mxr NG ,, i changed 680ohms to 1.39 k and 1mf caps 2nd and 3rd row bottom right changed to .69 mf electro.jfet i used 2sk118, 2n3904 trans. NE5532 for op amps.
    It works guyz i hope it will help in any way.more power.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Antonio21 April 2023 at 12:19

    There's a mistake in the third row regarding ground. The 680r meets with the 2M2 input pulldown resistor ground leg and the 1uf cap. That's very wrong. The 1uf doesn't even fit in the layout. Take that into account. Cheers!

    ReplyDelete
  58. slammer887 December 2023 at 13:06

    Can someone please confirm if this is working or not and to which schematics this one is bound to ?

    ReplyDelete
  59. Henri10 January 2024 at 21:09

    Built this without suggested modifications but fixed the 2M2 resistor routing to ground. Works fine. No squealing or funny noises. I tested different low to high hfe matched 2n3904’s pairs. Didn’t notice much difference. I’ll test a bit more and I think this is going to be boxed.

    ReplyDelete