Wednesday, 25 June 2014

Mutron Phasor II

John did a great version of this using vactrols but I wanted a version using simple LDRs so it was available to build for the maximum number of people. 

I would have preferred to have done this with a single LED with all 6 LDRs surrounding it, but it's too awkward to do neatly with vero, so instead opted for 3 LEDs, all with an LDR on each side.  These Tayda LDR's will apparently work extremely well with this circuit and diffuse yellow LEDs and so that is the recommendation, but it is always worth socketing and trying whatever you have to see what will work for you.

Because this is a phaser and as usual certain matched components will give the best results, I would recommend trying to get a good match with the LDRs for light and dark resistance.  This may not be necessary but it can't do any harm.

As usual with these you need to test them in the dark or isolate the LED/LDR combo from the light in some way when testing, it obviously shouldn't be an issue when boxed but I'd still be tempted to make little cardboard box surrounds for each LED group.

The LED+ connection is for the indication LED which will pulse at the rate of the phasing.

Now this sounds bloody great to me







Bill of Materials

Opamp JRC4558 6
Transistor 2N4401 1
Resistors 120R 1
Resistors 330R 1
Resistors 560R 2
Resistors 1K 1
Resistors 2K2 2
Resistors 3K9 2
Resistors 4K7 15
Resistors 8K2 3
Resistors 10K 3
Resistors 18K 1
Resistors 39K 1
Resistors 47K 2
Resistors 68K 3
Resistors 220K 7
Resistors 390K 2
Capacitors 47p 1
Capacitors 820p 1
Capacitors 1n 1
Capacitors 3n3 1
Capacitors 6n8 6
Capacitors 100n 2
Capacitors 470n 2
Capacitors 1u 1
Capacitors 10u 2
Capacitors 47u 1
Capacitors 220u 1
Diodes 1N4148 3
LEDs 5mm Yellow diffuse 3
LDR 10K/500K 6
Potentiometer 10K Lin 1
Potentiometer 10K Log 1
Potentiometer 25K Log 1
Trimmer 1K 1
Trimmer 10K 1

158 comments:

  1. I may very well try this when I have to order parts again. For now, would it be possible to post John's vactrol version?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Would this fit in a 1590BB? If not, what would you suggest? Making something yourself?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes it should fit in a 1590BB quite easily

      Delete
  3. Note the number of links have been reduced and a couple of diodes added linking two of the opamps to the supply.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Why GL 5516 instead of GL5539? I thought 39 was the one for the vtl5c3. Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The VTL5C3/2 actually has 10M dark resistance so based on that you would go for the GL5549 rather than the 5539. But remember that all the LDRs have a 200K resistor in parallel with them, so a 500K LDR will actually work out to be 153K dark resistance, and a 10M LDR would work out to be 215K.

      The VTL5C3/2 does have low on resistance though, somewhere between 2K and 55K depending on the current, whereas the GL5549 has between 90K and 150K, so it appears that it's the lower on resistance that is more important than the high off resistance, and I suspect anything above a certain off value will work fine. In fact that must be the case if you look at the results achieved with the 500K LDRs recommended.

      http://youtu.be/brwVL0gTS30

      Delete
    2. Thanks a lot, it was just curiosity. 5516 or Tayda then?

      Delete
    3. I'm going to try what I've got first which is the 5516's

      Delete
  5. One part of me wants to build this so badly...

    ...the other part, the one that sits and stares at a non-working circuit into the early morning hours, eyes glazed, daydreaming of throwing it into a chipper-shredder, somehow causing the circuit to feel pain, fingers number and cut from troubleshooting, that part of me wants to dick-punch the part of me that wants to attempt this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. man i feel exactly like this right now i spent all evening making this and i cant get the lfo to do its thing. this is very poetic and funny i lol when i read it ha ha

      Delete
  6. Board filed, 70 cuts done and 35 f*cking links soldered. Hope to have it in WORKING status tomorrow evening :P

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ha ha, my fingers are crossed too, or you may start sending me death threats after all those links!

      And ha ha Heath ^^ Do it, you know you want to!

      Delete
  7. (eyes are wide open staring in disbelief)
    Okay... now I am officially backed up with builds...
    I have always wanted one of these and I shall make one... dang it LOL
    oh and I just happen to have a nice dark purple 1590BB that needs some guts and holes drilled out...
    Thanks IVIark!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just to comment: It will be really hard to box it in a 1590BB. I'd say imposible with regular jacks and 3PDT.

      This board is about 10x6.5cm. Johnk-opy used a low profile 3PDT and a relay board in order to fit it all under the board. I'll use a Retex 6, slightly larger and deeper than the 1590BB, so I'll be able to put the board over a closed frame jacks.

      J.

      Delete
    2. What about mounting it with the components facing downwards, will that be better? You can set the trimmers when testing so it doesn't have to face up I suppose.

      Delete
    3. I'm afraid that it would be not possible, Mark.

      The main problem we have is the 3PDT. From base to the top od the solder lugs is about 2,1cm, so you only have about 0.6cm left because you need to place it under the board as there's no room to place it without being covered by the vero. It doesn't matter if you place the vero solder side up, simply there's no room with this kind of switch.

      J.

      Delete
    4. Relay board it is then :o)

      Delete
    5. I assume it would fit inside one of these then...
      http://www.pedalpartsplus.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PPP&Product_Code=1700&Category_Code=ENC17
      I think they are tall like a 125B enclosure...

      Delete
    6. Yes no problem with that one

      Delete
  8. Do you think this would work? http://www.mammothelectronics.com/4S1590BBT-p/500-1004.htm

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes I was thinking of the deeper 1590BB like the Moollon Chorus uses, that should do it no problem

      Delete
  9. Well, I think you can tag it :)

    Have to tweak the build, as I used yellow hb leds and the usual resistors for the mutron III / meatball (GL5539).

    The results are ok, but not great (still!), so tomorrow will change the leds and will order a ton of tayda ldr's :P.

    Mandatory to use a LOG pot for the Rate, if you use a lin, you'll get 99% of the action in the first quarter of the taper.

    To test this effect, you need ABSOLUTE darkness. With the Mu-tron III you can even check it / five a try in a normal lit room, but with the Phasor is not possible. My trick? I put the board on the floor.... and a leather jacket over the board :P

    Thank you Mark, let's hope I get the LDR's soon, oordering right now :P

    J.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fantastic, nice job matey. I think I'll still hold off from tagging it until you know for sure it isn't a problem elsewhere, but it's sounding promising so far.
      It just occurred to me that I haven't posted out those MPQ's yet, and I have all the different types of LDRs. Do you want me to throw a few of each in the envelope?

      Delete
    2. Do the LEDs seem to be illuminating uniformly? That was a concern because I wasn't sure if I'd done the multiple LEDs in the preferable way

      Delete
    3. Yeah, the leds are getting iluminated pretty uniform, that part is correctly solved and works great.

      The problem, more than the leds (in the Meatball and the first Mutron-III I used cristal hb reds, and in the new one, difused reds), I bet that there are the ldr's. To get to the GL5539, had to use several ones before, so I'll have to check a few here too. I don't take into consideration the GL5549, (too high dark resistance). Will check tomorrow the model of my local store (50k/ 1M), as I have just 4 at home, I was sure that I had a dozen.

      For the rest of the circuit, it works perfect, pots are very responsive, output is slightly over unity, and everithing works as it should.

      If you haven't sent the ic's, would be great if you can add some low value ldr's, surely they will come earlier from UK than from Thailand :P

      J.

      Delete
    4. No problem mate, I'll send them out tomorrow. Send me a pic of the board in the meantime, I like your gut shots :o)

      Delete
    5. Sure, I'll publish it on Facebook, as usual :)

      Delete
    6. I've been playin' with the board, ans swapped the yellow leds with red difused ones. The behaviour is the same. Been playin' too with the trimmers.

      In the place where the phaser sound is more noticeable, I get too an infernal woooooshh from the lfo everytime the leds are turned off. Or maybe from the leds / ldr's?

      All voltages seem correct (being a + / - 9 volts), so let's hope a change of ldr
      We are near, but still not there. I've been checking the schematics many times and can't find an error, so ... tomorrow will try to see where this greasy woooossssh comes from.

      J.

      Delete
    7. I think it's the on resistance that is causing the problem. By the spec sheet the on resistance of the 5539s could be 90K, and with the 220K resistor that'll give you potentially around 64K. The 5516 is a maximum of 10K and so around 9.6K with the 220K in parallel, and that's a big difference for the lowest resistance.

      Delete
  10. Hey mate, you can tag it, no need to hold :P Works great. It was my bad, soldered the ground pin of the second ldr from left one row lower, (you can see it on the pic) so it was connected to +9 instead of ground.

    Will try with the new LDR's you told me, but sounds great anyway. Great layout, Mark!

    J.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Excellent, you are a hero!

      Delete
    2. Thank you mate :) Now I have to commit sacrilege, and remove one link an put a.... standing resistor in order to wire it buffered (original spec :P) This time at least, there's only a buffer, no a full gain stage :P

      J.

      Delete
  11. Hi Mark.
    Is a max1044scpa ok in this?
    Jeff

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hi again.
    Can you tell me what is comparable to a TL82? I'll order some I guess if nothing I have will suit.
    jeff

    ReplyDelete
  13. TL072, TL062, or like the original, 4558 (that's the one I used). A Max1044scpa will work fine.

    J.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks J.
      I'm glad it's something I have several of!!
      Now if I could only fit it into a 125b...
      No chance.
      jeff

      Delete
    2. I opted for the TL082 because they're a low power opamp and sometimes good to use for LFOs to avoid ticking. But if it's working well with JRC4558's then I'll change the suggestion to the original type as I expect a lot more people will have them.

      Delete
    3. Thanks for the help.
      On the yellow LED's. In the pix, the shaded part of the LED is the flat, cathode side correct?

      Delete
  14. I got it all into a 1590bb. Had to trim a corner and use those nasty 'low profile' jacks but it all went in. Both boards etc. Doesn't work though!!
    I get good steady yellow board lights and a good check light on top but no effect. Dry signal is good when off. I think my LDR's are wrong and will order more. All parts/cuts/jumpers are good with no shorts. Off board was simple to check so I hope it's the LDR's. I will order the ones in your description and see what it does. How do I test the LDRs.

    ReplyDelete
  15. To be honest I don't know there value...Yea I know what a df. Anyway I tested them and I think they are lit up-30~40k in the dark~10M. So I guess they would not pass a signal.?.?..is my thinking correct or not. I just ordered a bunch of stuff (celebrate the 4th) including the ldr's you recommended in the intro. If I may ask...where are you located? And is your name indeed Mark?
    jeff

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are the LEDs flashing?

      I'm from Manchester UK and yes it's Mark

      Delete
    2. Cool.
      The led's are not flashing just steady and they get brighter when I increase the depth knob.

      Delete
    3. If they don't flash you won't get any phasing so you've got an issue somewhere because the LFO isn't working, or a connection from the LFO to the LEDs is dodgy. Check connections and placement for all the components around the bottom middle and bottom right IC.

      Delete
    4. RRRRR Laddie. Thar be phaze!!!
      jumper at 28/9 not solid. 7660 swapped out for a GOOD 1044.
      plowed a lot of epoxey.
      I've owned a Mooger Fooger 12stage phazer, Old Old Maestro (a square foot pedal), Ibanez, TC Chorus/phaze.....this beats them all put together!! AND it's in a closed up 1590bb. I am going to figure out the picture posting thing and send you some pix.
      SOOOOOOO COOL!! Thanks a million Mark.
      Jeff

      Delete
    5. Awesome, good job Jeff, I'll look forward to the pics

      Delete
    6. I replaced the 25k rate pot with a 250k and there is much better 'slow rate' control.
      There is also a tick - LFO? that is just audible. Can it be eliminated 100% or not.

      Delete
    7. What op amps did you use?

      Mark said earlier on that the low power TL082 may be preferable to avoid LFO tick

      Delete
    8. Thanks Travis.
      I used 4558's. Got a ton of em. The tick is probably not noticed by a crowd but I hear it. You know what I mean. I'll get some 82's and see what they do. That's by far the best phaser I've ever used. What is your impression?
      jeff

      Delete
    9. The problem with this is that it's +/-9V and so referenced to ground, unlike our usual 9V supplies which use a voltage divider to give you a 4.5V reference. The downside to the way it's done here is that you can't provide a separate reference voltage for the LFO like we can with the uni-polar circuits by simply creating a separate voltage divider specifically for the LFO. So I would suggest trying a few different opamps for the bottom middle and bottom right opamps and seeing if you maybe just have a noisy one in there at the moment. Something like the TL082 mentioned originally works well because it is low power which helps to reduce clock noise.

      Delete
    10. The poblem is that the LFO (Ic's 5 and 6) is not decoupled and shares the same +9v connection than the rest of the opamps. The diodes to the +9v are a good solution to avoid the ticking.

      You can too use a TL062 (the bes ones I've tried as LFO opamps), but I bet that they won't offer great result reducing the tick in this circuit. Maybe a 100r resistor from +9v of the supply to +9vv row on the board would be of help too.

      Anyway, I've still not seen a lfo based modulation pedal, comercial or not, that does not suffer of ticking, slight or heavy, but you'll always notice some tick in the background. This is one case of very slight ticking, and totally admisible.

      J.

      Delete
  16. Hi boys..how different is this from the biphase?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The phasing will basically be the same, but there's obviously two in the biphase plus the extra bells and whistles. The biphase won't be appearing any time soon though. I think there's something like 16 opamps in it so the board would be immense.

      Delete
  17. Hey there, thanks for creating this layout.

    I have built this, but it's not producing the phaser effect. Signal comes through sounding very slightly lower volume than bypassed, but totally clean. If I run a fuzz pedal after this then I can get a tremolo type effect.

    - The rate knob works well and all led's are synced to that. Good.
    - The depth knob makes the led's go dark if turned past 3 o'clock.

    I used a pink led. It looks awesome. Do I possibly have an issue with an ic being bad, or maybe the transistor? It works, but something is just not kicking in. I've been troubleshooting it and found a few missing cuts, but it looks good.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Are you testing it in the light?

      Delete
  18. In the dark, and in closed in the case produces the same result. Didn't get a chance to go over it last night, but I'm sure that it's easily solved. Just thought you might have an idea off hand. Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  19. got it working. it was a bad IC. sounds really good!

    ReplyDelete
  20. just wanted to confirm that this works fine with the 5539 LDR's and either 4588, tl072, or tl082 IC's. Mine also tests just fine with ambient light. it's not really a very difficult build, but there are a lot of links which is a bit of a pain. It's awesome and very vocal sounding.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Excellent, glad you're enjoying it. I haven't built it yet but I definitely will be doing, I'm sick of the messing around you have to do with JFET phasers so this kind of opto phaser is one for me to use more frequently. I'll have to look for something similar with 4 stages that could go in a smaller box

      Delete
  21. I've read all the comments here, but its a bit unclear. Will the Tayda LDR work? They are KE-10720.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  22. After much messing about I've managed to get this thing to work, and boooy it's worth the effort! All was perfect except I decided that I'd use clear bright LEDs, the white ones. I've used them before for effects like the ugly face with fantastic results so I thought I'd give it a shot. Somehow it messed with the effect. I swapped them all out for the 5mm red diffused variety out of sheer frustration and voila, we have phase!!!

    Only very slight value substitutions going on with some of the caps, I used Tayda components throughout including the LDRs. I've found that you can eliminate 90% of the clicking with careful trimpot tuning. Also I used some wide heatshrink tubing to sit over each trio of LDR/LED/LDR and folded the top over to remove most of the light.

    Dudes you have really done a magnificent job on this, it is quite possibly the best pedal I've built thus far out of about 30. You really do have my gratitude for this. Born in the 80s, I have been privileged enough to play through a few vintage effects, but never did I think I'd have the chance to own any. This is about as close as it gets. Thank you!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Excellent, glad you got it going. I think it's always a good idea with something like this to socket the LEDs, and possibly the LDRs too, just so that you can experiment easily without having to de-solder and re-solder. A few people have felt that yellow LEDs seem to give the best results so it may be worth trying that

      Delete
    2. Yes a lesson for next time! I don't have any yellows except super bright ones, although they are on the list! I'll make do for now but it's definitely worth a go, thanks mate.

      Delete
  23. Yeah, this pedal is definitely one of the very best that I have ever tried. It's just amazing. Tried it after my minibrute synth and oh boy, it's crazy cool. It's very synth-like in itself, like a module in a pedal. My chain is currently, russian big muff (modded) > robot devil clone > coloursound wah clone > phasor 2 and it's pure glory all of the time. Can't wait to use it live.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Anyone got any suggestions where I can buy a board this big in the US?

    ReplyDelete
  25. small bear has them. that's where I got mine even though they sent me perfboard instead of the stripboard that I ordered. made it a more time consuming build, but I was too obsessed to not use it.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I do not like perf at all. You're crazy for even attempting this on perf

    ReplyDelete
  27. It did suck but hey, I got it working! Really wasn't that hard, but was the biggest build I have done yet.

    pics:
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10552541_10203076634609429_8076688946785287438_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10254041_10203076638849535_8259509602622686456_n.jpg

    https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/10475837_10203076637769508_3921024383708315987_n.jpg

    https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t1.0-9/10557402_10203076636009464_1554328722323982894_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10440666_10203076635209444_2437317322472006376_n.jpg?oh=b7959879944cbfc13b1c8cdc1101e121&oe=545539C4&__gda__=1413498834_c09f4da64a2a3c15480e13862b61d9cf

    ReplyDelete
  28. Testing with 2 pix links. [IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/2uyshns.jpg[/IMG]

    ReplyDelete
  29. Worked. Here is the front of my Mutron II.
    http://tinypic.com/m/i5ypzs/3

    ReplyDelete
  30. Works great! Thx for everyone's comments! I did change the Rate Pot to a 250k and all 6 ICs were the JRCs…..TL082 (I think I had a bad lot), but now no crackles, the diffused LED works great!

    ReplyDelete
  31. Done :D
    I'll have to play with the trimmers once boxed, but wotked right away and sounds nice
    I used noisy TL072 and a bc337, I will replace these with correct parts once i get my next order.
    LDRs are 5516
    http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2014/08/17/14081705442814005912458381.jpg

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry I missed your post. Looks great, thanks for the pic

      Delete
  32. Built and sounding nice, thanks! All with tayda parts to confirm that those are working, and also the trimmers seem to be for phase and frequency?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The trimmer to the right hand side allows you to fine tune the LED brightness for the best results with your build, and so that will affect depth. The trimmer to the left fine tunes the LFO shape. I'd just set both by ear to the setting that seems best.

      Delete
    2. Thanks :) Do you know where the testpoints for the LFO shape would be? I have it sounding nice, but sounds more like a saw than a triangle, and there seems to be very little room before it introduces a high shelf or something so would like to adjust by scope. Is there an inverted LFO as well for the phasing?

      Delete
    3. Think my problem is that somehow the 7660 is outputting +11.10 and the negative voltage is only -9.40.
      Should I bypass the boost on pin 1 even though youve specified using it?

      Delete
    4. No, the boost increases the oscillator frequency not the voltage. If you're getting +11V then I assume you're using an unregulated power supply, so I'd suggest using a 9V zener diode between pin 1 & 8 of the ICL7660S and ground (anode to ground). This will limit the voltage going into the charge pump to 9V.

      Delete
    5. Thanks, got a bit more bottom end before the leds turn off then.
      Think Ill call it done there.

      Delete
  33. Has anybody tried to run one of these from a 9v battery? Is there any point, or will it just eat thorugh them at speed? Just considering my wiring options before I finish this one, any help gratefully received!

    ReplyDelete
  34. Have not tried with battery.

    Just considering 6 opamps + 3 leds with a 18v swing, I bet this effect can dry a fresh battery in 15 minutes.

    J.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Thanks JaviCAP. This is now built and in it's enclosure nearly there but not quite. My bypass signal is fine, but the effect signal is just the LFO ticking (quietly). LEDs are lighting up, it's not exposed to other light sources, I have some work to do! Does anyone know if this would this point to any particularly obvious problems?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Apart from obvious problems (misplaced components, doggy solders and so on), in such a big board, the best option is to use an audio probe to locate quickly where the signal is lost.

      That it "works" on bypass, doesn't mean anything, just that the stompswitch wiring for bypass is correctly done, so I'm afraid that you'll have toi triple check components positions, continuity and solder joints. If nothing shows results, then you'll have to get an audio probe.

      J.

      Delete
  36. Not the prettiest I've ever done, but managed to shoehorn it into a 1590bb! I did an ultra-pro star grounding job on this one where I twisted all the grounds together and dribbled hot solder on it until it held.

    The bonus of using the 10mm clear LED I found is that when it's bypassed, you can faintly see the light from the internal LEDs blinking away through the status LED. I guess that also means that there's a small amount of light getting inside the enclosure, but I really haven't heard any problems in the end effect to make me feel like I should change anything.

    http://imgur.com/yJfFxDW
    http://imgur.com/a3pre5S

    ReplyDelete
  37. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/tomkogut/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3d064e9c.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/tomkogut/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsa4b3e030.jpg

    Threw this sloppy thing together for a friend with some random LDR's I got on eBay a long time ago. Sounds great! Had to use a 2k trimmer for the led brightness to make up for the different LDR's I used. Thanks mark!

    ReplyDelete
  38. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  39. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  40. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Is anyone else getting a crackly distortion out of this when they hit a loud note/chord?

    I seem to be getting pretty low headroom. My voltages on the pump are good, like 9.34v and -9.34v

    What seems weird to me is that my voltages on the top 3 ICs seem low. At least pins 1-3 on all 3 of them are .01 or 0v

    I'm at work right now so I'll have to write down all of my voltages later

    I'm using all JRC4558D, except for a TL072 on the top right IC. I think I had a bad IC in there because it was oscillating like a siren (it was really cool actually but I want a phaser not a siren :P)

    As my build is now, it sounds very beautiful, except for the low headroom issue which I'm having a hard time solving

    If somebody could post voltages from their working build I'd really appreciate it. Like I said the top 3 ICs on my build seem fishy

    ReplyDelete
  42. I built two and neither work.... Gah. Missing something here...

    ReplyDelete
  43. Here's mine. Worked right off the bat...
    http://mirosol.kapsi.fi/varasto/boxes/OF528-1446-OPDg.jpg
    +m

    ReplyDelete
  44. Damn Miro your build looks sweet :D

    Could you please do me a favor and post your voltages? I'm on the fence about my build.. It sounds fucking awesome but I know something has to be wrong with it because it's distorting sometimes

    ReplyDelete
  45. Hey guys. Sorry for posting up this thread so much, but I have to come in here to say that I think my problem had something to do with my home setup. I've brought my build to practice a couple times and with my normal rig I can't get it to distort like it was when I was testing. In fact it really is the best sounding phaser I've used, I'm pretty amazed by how it sounds

    I do get a bit of noise/tick, but it's certainly not noticeable in a band situation. You know, there aren't many times where you need to sit there which your phaser on while everybody is silent. I'll still try to add some additional filtering and do some more IC swapping to get the noise to a minimum, but I say it's an acceptable level of noise, especially when you consider that it sounds so great

    Anyways.. Another long winded post. I'll shut up and post a couple pictures meow
    http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/Dub-T-123/Mobile%20Uploads/photo2_zps21834152.jpg
    http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/Dub-T-123/Mobile%20Uploads/photo1_zpsff55726b.jpg

    Thanks for the amazing layout Mark. This is the most badass vero build I've done

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Excellent, glad you (sort of) sorted the problem, or at least found a probable other cause. Glad you like it and thanks for the pics, the build looks great

      Delete
  46. Thanks matey! I guess the conclusion I've come to is that I did have a problem at first, but then I fixed a cut and now my build is fine.

    I think for some reason my little amp at home just distorts when the phaser is at a certain part of the sweep where the frequencies are just right to make it crap out. At least that's my best logic.. Anyway there's no problem with it on my normal rig and as I said it just sounds awesome!

    My build must weigh over 5 pounds. It's the most dense feeling pedal I've picked up :P

    When you're feeling well enough you HAVE to build this, Mark. It really stands out to me as something special

    ReplyDelete
  47. Just finished mine. Working well, but I find that the rate pot "rise" too quickly. In the middle, it's very fast, and from middle to full clockwise, the LEDs flash so fast that they are full light.
    I tried Log and Lin 25K pot, and it's the same result. Can I change the pot value for a more linear increase ?
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Try the trimmer. That'll affect the intensity of the LEDs...
      +m

      Delete
    2. I tried them. But it's not really the power of light but more the speed. After the middle of the pot the LEDs blink so fast that it's as if they were fully lit.

      Delete
    3. The bottom right hand IC is the LFO so check all the values, so the 120R, 1K, 39K, 47K, 68K, and 470n cap. Plus the rate pot of course.

      Delete
    4. Thanks IvIark.
      So one of this resistors adjust the maximum speed of the rate.

      Delete
    5. The frequency of the LFO is determined by a number of the components and as such any deviation in their values can affect it, so those values need to be checked to make sure they're all correct. It's a common LFO as used in a number of effects including the Boss CE2 and so if you want to experiment with values check out the LFO section of the information at ElectroSmash which shows the calcs.

      Delete
    6. Incidentally a couple of people above mentioned getting better slow rate control using a 250K Rate pot instead of the 25K. So that will obviously be worth a try if all else with the components is good.

      Delete
    7. Thanks Mark.
      I used exactly the same values for all components (resistor, cap, IC...) as mentioned in the layout.
      I have a 200K pot on hand I will try with this one if I have a more linear increase with the rate pot.
      Thanks for the link above, CE-2 is my next project, I just finished the Magnus modulus (working perfectly the first time, very nice layout, I'll post pictures very soon), and this one (after I solved this problem ;)

      Delete
    8. So, I tried with the 200K pot and that's worst.
      I'll try to change the values of the resistor to have a slower LFO frequency. In the link above (CE-2 LFO), 2 ICs, 3 resistors and 1 cap are use for the LFO, that's the same thing in this one ? What components I nedd to use in the formula ?

      Delete
  48. Hey Thelonious.. It doesn't sound like you need to adjust the LED brightness to solve that problem, you need to adjust the other trimmer which alters the waveform.

    If you have it set a certain way the LED will have a very short "off" cycle and the LED will just stay lit at fast rate settings.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks Travis.
      This not a problem with the brightness or the waveform, but with the maximum rate of speed. The speed of LFO increases too rapidly.
      My english is not very good and I may have misspoken my problem.

      Delete
  49. had to leave this one alone for awhile.... came back to it and got it working! great work on the layout, thank you. I would really like to have some buffered ins to jack in modular signals to control the phasing instead of the LFO..... Ideally I will build two of these in a rack box and get some patch points set up to make it kind of a biphase. ADSR control of the phasing would be sweet. for now just as a guitar pedal it sounds great!

    http://imgur.com/a/6FQdT

    ReplyDelete
  50. I found how to have a slow LFO rate. I changed the 39K (just right trimmer), by a 100K, and now I have a very nice slow rate when the pot is fully counterclockwise.
    I wish I had more depth, what can I change for this?
    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  51. hi guys, i built this and it is driving me crazy. two things:

    1: it seems like, if there was a mix control, the effect is 60% wet. it seems like it isn't that chewy, like some dry signal passes through. does this make sense? i have all the LDR/LEDs wrapped about 50 times with electrical tape... could there be a positioning problem? the effect just isn't very strong.

    2. the LFO/waveform is way off, it seems like it rises, falls, then bottoms out/does nothing for a second, then it rises and falls again. there is a time when nothing is happening, and i feel like i've fiddled with the trimpots and can't get it to stop. any ideas guys?

    ReplyDelete
  52. Hello everyone, nice tight layout as always! :) is there anywhere any ~clean schematic with the LDRs that this layout is using? i'd like to make a digital LFO and keep the phaser part as the original is. thanks for the amazing ideas posted here!

    ReplyDelete
  53. Hi I did the pedal, it was completely pain in the ass!

    1 issue: The Depth knob seems to don't work correctly, if i put it on the middle position the phaser works, after (6/10) the LED get off and I've no phasing and before the led are completely on, and not phasing too... I really need to use the 10K trim too for making the phaser works too and it work on a really little part of it. Any suggestions?

    PS: is it correct to put le LED RAT - on the switch, like a standard statut led?

    ReplyDelete
  54. Can I use any other transistor?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's just a driver for the LEDs so try any other NPN in there. Go for something with a higher collector current though, the 2N4401 is good for 500mA

      Delete
    2. Thank you, I'll try 2N2222A in there.

      Delete
  55. Need some advice on this one.

    I've had a stash of vactrols for years and this build seems like the one I've been waiting for. Only I discovered today what I thought were VTL5C3/2's turned out to be VTL5C4/2's. The specs are not even close between the two.

    I do have a bunch of single VTL5C3's though.

    I was able to juggle around the layout to accomodate 6 VTL5C3's, replacing each of the 3 led/ldr combos with a pair of the 5C3's. So now there are essentially 6 LEDs, 3 paralleled pairs wired in series as per the original layout.

    Here's my question; Is there enough juice to drive 6 vactrols wired this way? I'm wondering what effect the voltage drop across the 3 pairs of LEDs will have on the sound, as apposed to just the 3 single LEDs.

    I'd hate to find out after all that work the 6 vactrols wired this way won't cut it. Although I guess if needbe, I could always pull them out and go with the led/ldr combos. I think that's still doable with the way I tweaked the layout.

    Anyway, any advice before I cut the vero would be appreciated.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Researching this I learned a lot about series/parallel diodes and I calculated the current required for 3 paralleled pairs wired in series would be somewhere between Mark's series wired LDR version and the original paralleled dual-vactrol version.

      So doable yes, but I also discovered that VTL5C3s are going for about $7 these days.

      Given the success reported here with the LDRs I have decided to hold on to the VTL5C3s rather than dump 6 of them in just one effect.

      Now, what to do with the VTL5C3s? Probably have them for another 10 years...



      Delete
  56. well my build has stopped working. I was using it and it started sounding scratchy first, then it stopped making sound. I opened it up and the led's are on, but no flashing. I replaced all the IC's and still the same. Any ideas of what might have gone bad? I can't see anything wrong inside.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. the god of phase is probably angry at you. Same thing happened to me, I feel for ya mate...

      Delete
    2. Turns out the power IC went bad. Replaced it and it's back up and running!

      Delete
  57. This is ridiculous: it worked fine yesterday, but today, the LEDs just won't flash (the status LED from the LED+ supply does though) and I have a consistent negative voltage on pin 7 of IC6 (negative voltage on base of the transistor doesn't do anything I guess...) But WHY?? I'm really starting to get desperate here, especially as it worked fine and sounded beautiful yesterday.

    ReplyDelete
  58. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  59. When LEDs burn out they tend to flash just once for about 1 second - then they are history. I am just saying maybe you should test the LED and make sure it is still working. 9v alone with no resistor is enough to burn out an LED.

    If it isn't that, it is the orientation of the LED, make sure you don't have the right polarity reversed.

    ReplyDelete
  60. the LEDs are alright, I've tested them... And the whole circuit had worked already... then just suddenly stopped after I boxed it. I took it out of the box, same thing... So it can't be the orientation. There's something wrong with the bottom right IC (IC6 ? ) which provides a consistent negative voltage from pin 7 for the transistor, therefore the LED's won't do nothing... But my understanding of OPamps and LFOs in general isn't quite good enough to let me understand how to solve the problem by just looking at the schematic and the vero...

    ReplyDelete
  61. After some relentless hours of troubleshooting I finally found (the ridiculous!) fault... I must've accidentally created an unwanted bridge, which was really impossible to spot (I ended up using a magnifying glass ...) But it was really worth the torture..! What an amazing pedal! And probably my prettiest build yet..!
    https://plus.google.com/photos/108669795125442168197/albums/6108625318465963473/6156960321622934146?banner=pwa&pid=6156960321622934146&oid=108669795125442168197

    ReplyDelete
  62. Hi, I'm just testing it, seems to work fine, but when turning up the feedback pot too much (a bit more than half) it gives me a horrifying, siren-like howling... Is that normal? or do I need to add a resistor of some kind?
    I'd love to hear some advice :) (the pedal sounds fricking awesome otherwise!!!)
    -David

    ReplyDelete
  63. Thanks for the layout, lvlark! here's a pic of my build:
    http://imgur.com/Lh6s4JOl

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anyone know the orientation of the ICs?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. they all have the gray half circle at the top of them. That indicates the direction. so pin 1 would be on top left of all of them.

      Delete
    2. thanks, that's what i figured! cheers.

      Delete
  65. Just finished this up. LED is blinking faster than internal LEDs and the effect isn't prominent. Did some initial troubleshooting and couldn't find anything glaring. I ordered my LDRs from Tayda, so they might be the problem. No significant noise or weird things going on. Just very faint effect. I've tried covering the pedal in dark shirts to see if there is light leakage and it doesn't seem to help. Not sure how the trimmers are calibrated either. Any ideas?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. lol, now the LEDs aren't blinking and the indicator LED only goes on when I short rows 3 and 4 on the power supply board. I realized I was using a 7660CPAZ and only getting .4v on +9v lead. Swapped out for 7660s and now getting full voltage. At a loss still.

      Delete
  66. I'm actually pretty happy with my build, but the LFO tick is really starting to annoy me... I have tried all sorts of OP amps (TL082, 062...) added a 100r resistor from +9v supply to the row on the board, none of which seemed to help at all... Do you guys out there have any other suggestions?? It also seems to be worse with tube amps...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yeah with a tube amp you really gotta use the effects loop (if it has one), otherwise LFO tick tends to get really bad, I've noticed that myself.

      Delete
  67. Guys I need help please!! my build worked fine until yesterday, when I tried to swap the TL024 for a TL082... Then the LFO changed into something really weird, like a m-wave, something really irregular definitely.
    The LEDs are also way less bright, they hardly affect the LDRs. when I cover them with my hand and then remove the hand while next to a light source, you can definitely hear the phase effect though.
    just why has the LFO suddently gotten so weird??
    Is there any lug where I could do some useful measuring, or any component that would cause such a weird "sine" wave when broken??? I hope there's someone out there to help me, this drives me crazy! I need my phasor! :D

    ReplyDelete
  68. Hello! I'm still desperately looking for some help...
    I've done some troubleshooting and found out something, still don't know what to do now though. The LFO does work properly,if I remove all the op amps from the phasing stages. But when I put them in, one after the other (order doesn't matter) each time the LED's glow a little less bright, until, with all the op amps in, they hardly glow at all. Furthermore the LFO curve seems to change, the more phasing op amps are in there, it becomes increasingly square, until at last the LEDs are rather just on/off, the smooth blend between those stages is missing. (But they work fine when no op amps other than the bottom middle and right, the LFO ones are put in...).
    Has any of you guys who already built the circuit have an idea what might cause this weird dependence of phasing and lfo part onto each other? The phasing part works too by its own, i tested it in the light as mentioned in the post before...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, shame on me for not being able to figure this out earlier... It was a cold solder joint at the ground connection, so the circuit wasn't grounded properly (Only had the +9V and -9V, that's why the circuit was still sort of working...) ... apart from a little ticking it's now working very well :)

      Delete
  69. thx for this layout. ;)

    i got it fired up and sounding amazing, but getting the lfo tick problem others are having. i found it was lowest with JRC4558's. tried with 072's and a bunch of burrbrown's which were worse. i got a whine with 7662 on the power board.

    on the bi-phase schems there is an extra diode in the LFO block, the opposite direction to the LED. what is this extra diode for? could it solve the ticking?

    check the bi-phase schems here http://m.bareille.free.fr/biphase/the_vintage.htm
    the diodes are CR16 and CR17.

    cheers

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The ticking can be reduced by a proper lead dress and using shielded wire for input and output. Try to let cables cross at a 90 degree angle (don't let them run parallel or even twist them!) and keep input and output as short as possible. Choosing a bigger enclosure than an 1590BB would probably help, I didn't really manage to get the proper lead dress done in mine, so it still ticks a bit, but I guess it depends on how skilled you are ;) also make sure that all the soldering is done really well around the lfo section! good luck! :) if you find out anything else that can be done about the tick, please let me know!
      Greetings from Germany,
      Lennart

      Delete
    2. The ticking can be reduced by a proper lead dress and using shielded wire for input and output. Try to let cables cross at a 90 degree angle (don't let them run parallel or even twist them!) and keep input and output as short as possible. Choosing a bigger enclosure than an 1590BB would probably help, I didn't really manage to get the proper lead dress done in mine, so it still ticks a bit, but I guess it depends on how skilled you are ;) also make sure that all the soldering is done really well around the lfo section! good luck! :) if you find out anything else that can be done about the tick, please let me know!
      Greetings from Germany,
      Lennart

      Delete
  70. Hey Guys

    I built this last night, but I have a strange issue in which my voltage inverter gets super hot, seems to stop putting out the correct voltages and only one LED comes on and stays solid, there is also absolute silence. I've checked my tracks and everything seems super clean, I've also disconnected my voltage inverter and checked that wasn't the issue either. But yeah, once it's connected to the board I get nothing. Really don't want to have to start again from scratch but I really can't seem to work out what the issue might be. Has anybody had similar issues?

    ReplyDelete
  71. My Pedalboard was stolen. I hope, someone's at least having fun with my phasor right now...

    ReplyDelete
  72. Hi,

    Would this method work with this pedal to avoid ticking:

    "3) The LFO and audio path need to be decoupled from each other. You should run something like a 100R resistor from the shared +9v source to the V+ pin of the various CMOS and op-amp chips, and run a 10-100uf cap to ground from that pin. This will give each chip a small reservoir of current to hold them over in case one of the other chips makes a sudden demand for current. Those sudden demands are what you hear as ticking."

    What would be the easiest methold to implement it in this circuit? Do both lower mid and right IC:s need those components and how should I put them in?

    ReplyDelete
  73. I'm a beginner in electronics and not so good at circuit bending yet but i'm shure, with two of these one could build a bi-phase. Am I wrong???

    ReplyDelete
  74. just finished building this(three of these actully, bulding several helps avoiding mistakes), worx perfectly. my third veroboard built(b4, the super tone control, and multiplex jr)! I want to use two of these to make a biphase. I'll find the solution. and why not use two of these to make a twelve stage phasor (and beat the moogs sound?).

    ReplyDelete