Saturday, 5 April 2014

Grind Customs FX DeProfundis Delay

Rej at Grind Customs FX is well known in the DIY community.  He designs some great effects, shares a lot of projects with us all and also sells some really excellent PCBs, the Chimaera in particular is extremely popular with those who want to build a Klon in a small box.  See the projects on his forum at http://www.grindcustomsfx.com/forum and check out his PCBs at http://www.grindcustomsfx.com.

This one in a very nice sounding delay based on the PT2399 IC and is definitely a recommended build.
Info from Rej about his effect:

Overview
The DeProfundis Delay is a PT2399 based digital delay with aggressively filtered repeats and the possibility of very long delay times (and minimal delay line noise). There is also a tone control trimmer to adjust the high pass cutoff frequency on the repeats. The stock values yield a max delay time of approximately 550ms - 600ms. With a minor modifications (see below), max delay time can be extended to almost 900ms.  

Tweaks & Modifications  

“Love You Long Time” - Extend the max delay time

This is a very easy modification. Change the Time pot to A100K and then add a 270K resistor in parallel with Time. You can add the resistor either to the pot pads on the board, or you can use the pads marked “M1” and “M2” (see below for more info on these). Adding the 270K resistor brings the Time pot’s total resistance value down to about 75K, which is about the limit of what this circuit can handle without getting noisy and producing synth like repeats (more resistance = more delay time). If you don’t have 270K on hand, try 220K, but be aware that this will give you less max delay time. Or you could put multiple resistors in series to get close to 270K.  

Even Darker Repeats 
If the dark and murky tone of the stock circuit does not satisfy your black heart, try increasing the value of C7 (Mark's note: 10n cap to ground under IC2) to taste.




Video of Rej's build with modulation added.  And before you ask, yes I am :o)







This version is based on Rej's notes for increasing the maximum delay time.  Instead of putting a resistor in parallel with the Time pot I've used a multi-turn trimmer so you can set the maximum delay time exactly, to the point just before things starts getting a bit noisy. 




Here is the modulation daughterboard for those wanting to add it to the effect.  It is based on Rej's Portable LFO schematic and although it is designed for the DeProfundis, it would work equally well to add delay to other PT2399 based delay pedals such as the Deep Blue Delay.

The main modulation switch will be centre off, in one position you'll have modulated delay, in the other position you'll have modulation only.

The Shape switch will let you select a sin or square wave, and could if you prefer be swapped for a 500K linear pot which will sweep between the two waves and then give you the in between settings too.

The LED and LDR need to face each other, ideally tape them together or use heat shrink around them so you can try the circuit without it needing to be boxed first.  You'll need to experiment with LED type and colour etc and LDR type to see how it works for you, or maybe use a Vactrol for an integrated unit.



89 comments:

  1. Small correction made, get the latest version now! :o)

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  2. The man in the video has a switch. You didn't include it? He modded his? What happened?

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    1. Oh, it says he modded it. Embarassing!

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    2. That will be the modulation switch and I'll add a daughterboard for that soon

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    3. In the demo i'm using the modulation board that IvIark have now posted with the 2 possible modes.

      There's probably better clips of this layout on youtube, hopefully!

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  3. Modulation board added to post.

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    1. The LDR that Tayda sells works perfectly for this application with a 3mm orange diffused LED.

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    2. Thanks for the info Rej, and the project of course :o)

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  4. In the first layout switch feedback 1 and 3, bring the Time2/3 wire down one row, and turn those two 10n caps on the left into 100n and then it will work and match the schematic.

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    1. God I made a right pigs ear of that! :o)
      Thanks for the heads up buddy, layouts corrected.
      Have you built it or just gone over it?

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    2. Built it and it sounds good!

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    3. Excellent, thanks for verifying

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    4. Thanks for verifying Sir! :)

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  5. Is there a discrepancy with the cut and link in the top left corner of the daughter board? They look like they switch sides.

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    1. Yes, I've corrected it now. I do that sometimes when I rejig the main board a bit after I've copied the bare board and forget to change that one too :o)

      If you've already done the cuts it will still work fine though. The 10n cap can be shifted to any of the free spaces horizontally, so just put that above the 10u or 47u cap.

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  6. A quick question. I see that the daughter board should work on the Deep Blue. Is that known to be for sure? Also will the mod for extended delay time work there as well?
    Keep up the great work!

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    1. Yes it will definitely work with a DBD too, as will the extended delay time

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  7. I built the daughter board and the led is on all the time. The depth pot dims and brightens it but there is no blinking. I double checked tracks for shorts and cold joints and I couldn't come up with anything obvious. I've looked over the layout many times and it seems I have it correct.

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  8. I have experienced exactly the same symtoms on my board as Luke has.

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  9. I'm getting 4.6V at pins 1,2,3,5,6,7 and 9.6 at 8 .001 at pin 4. None of the voltages are varying. 5-7 start a bit lower than 4.6 and creep up to rest at 4.6

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    1. I think I have figured it, its the 47uf cap. It has its positive connection on row 5/pin 3 of ic whereas it should be on the 9v line. I disconnected it and the light flashes. I then did a bodged connection from the cap + to the 9v line as I suppose the cap is needed to keep the osc. stable and of course it still works or at least it still flashes. I have yet to do the LDR and the connection to the motherboard yet!

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    2. I think you are correct based upon a second look at the schematic which shows the 47u going from power to ground as a power supply filter I believe.

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    3. No. There are 4 filter caps, a 100u from 9V to ground under IC2 is the main filter cap, a 100u from the 5V output of the regulator to ground, a 47u from VR to ground (pin 5 cap) and a 47u from VR of the PT2399 (pin 2) to ground. The cap at pin 5 is definitely correct.

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    4. We are talking about the daughterboard. I have the main board up and running no problem!

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    5. Sorry, my first post in this thread was meant as a reply to my previous post, as is it is a bit ambiguous.

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    6. Sorry you were talking about the daughterboard weren't you. :o)
      I'd remove that cap completely. The reason why I included it is because in my head I was thinking of it being a reference voltage, but with it being an oscillator it must affect its operation. I omitted the 47u filter cap between supply and ground because you don't need it, the 9V supply into the pedal is being filtered on the main delay board and the supplies are directly connected, and so adding another filter cap will just be like having a 147uf filter cap between supply and ground.

      So yes I'd just snip it out and I'll edit the layout.

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    7. No worries! I love all the delay layouts you've been doing lately I think the dual cave dweller may be my next build!

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    8. Just to confirm the daughterboard works with the motherboard OK. In fact I ordered rej's board and it works fine with that. The only thing I am not sure about is the third position on the modulation switch. In the centre the LDR is not connected to both sides of the Rate control and so I just get delay. In one position it is and the full Zombification takes effect! But in the other position the Sw2 end of the LDR is earthed and so that means that I have two no-modulation modes and one modulation mode. I don't see how the "Modulation only mode" referred to in Marks description works. I thought perhaps it was a vibrato mode. Have I c**ked it up or just missed the point?

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    9. I made the correction to the layout mentioned on the post on the Portable LFO topic in Rej's forum, and so swapped the M1 and M2 connections. Did you use the first version of the daughterboard layout I posted? If so, swap the [TIme 1] and [Time 2 & 3] wires over.

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    10. Thanks yes I did use the original layout but I wired it as per the later version. I looked at the thread on Rej's forum to confirm that I had it right. I nonetheless swapped time 1 and time 2/3 over to check and I now get mod-echo/echo/mod-echo. So far as I can see all that switch does is connect the LDR across the Rate pot or not!
      Anyway its a great effect as it is. FWIW I used a 3mil diffuse green led with anLDR both from Doctor Tweek. I pointed the LED at the LDR and wrapped them with shrink wrap as you suggested. Worked without any need for fiddling. Thanks.

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    11. Hi, shouldn't one pole of the mod switch be across the mix pot to give 100% wet signal for vibrato etc.?
      One position shorts the LDR to ground, and the other two apply modulation to the Time pot as far as I can see at the moment.....
      Thanks......

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    12. The center off disconnects the modulation. The side that connects the ldr to ground gives modulation only (No echo decay, the note stops when you stop playing). The other side modulates the echo, repeats decay normally. That's the best I can describe the way that mine works.

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  10. Thanks Luke - so the ldr to ground sounds like a chorus pedal?

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  11. Or does it sound like vibrato? I'm building the enclosure and doing the graphics at the same time as making the boards, and I'm wondering what to put on it.

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  12. It definitely has some chorus type sounds depending on the settings, it can get pretty crazy too. I'm not that familiar with Vibrato but this pedal will do quite a lot.

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    1. Vibrato is just a chorus without the dry signal, so you get all wobble with no dry signal mixed in.

      I just followed the scheme and noted correction with this one, but I'll check it out tomorrow to see what's amiss and get the layout corrected so it does everything intended.

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    2. If you wanted to cut out the dry signal I believe you could make a cut in the track on the top row between the jumper from IC1 and the 22k and add a and spst switch Or you could add a cap and a pot to have a volume control. I did the volume control and didn't find it too useful but I didn't try it with modulation which could be pretty cool. I discussed it at the stompbox forum in this thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106941.msg969306#msg969306

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    3. Correction: I meant IC2.

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    4. I might not be quite right. I can't remember exactly what I did. I was trying to make the mix pot a fade between dry and wet level and all I ended up doing was cutting out the dry signal. At any rate, It can be done.

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  13. Build this one today and found a slight volume drop to the bypass signal. The original schematic has a 1K before the volume pot (R6), this one here says 10K.... Mark:)?

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    1. Copy/paste syndrome. Now corrected, cheers for the heads up

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    2. Thanks again Mark, I meant output wire (not "volume pot") btw...:). Although adding a volume control might be usefull for some applications....

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  14. Any news on the modulation switch layout for this Mark?
    Heiko - what does your mod switch do on each setting?

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    1. modulated delay - delay only - modulation only (pos. 1 - 2 - 3)

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    2. Thanks for that, Heiko.... Now I can get on with building the enclosure.

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  15. This does not work with red LED: ( ..,,but the delay sound good,,, tone pot works well thanks ivark
      greetings 2 for agung
    mahendra

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    1. The Modulation doesn't work with a red LED? I used an ultrabright white LED with tayda's ldr and that seems to be working really well. Coincidentally I wrapped it with red electrical tape and haven't subjected it to complete darkness yet so I don't know if the red is effecting how it responds but it sounds nice.

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    2. who knows, maybe the fault is in me, I will try later thanks to white LED information mr.LUKE cheers

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  16. and thanks IvIark, good sound delay works well, the tone pot is helpful to clarify the sound clean sound delay ..
    I just use a simple recording equipment, oops I did not use the layout modulation


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_s4P5klPOQ

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    1. That's great, thanks for posting!

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    2. okay thank iviark, delay is what I've been looking for .. cheers I like vero broad

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  17. Yes, this delay is really great, I think it beats my DBD. I´ll try adding a tone control to it, that should be a really useful feature....

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  18. damn man .. I find it very useful tone pot. I replaced the pot for a long time with A100k delay: D

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  19. I just added the mod board to my Deep Blue but when I am in the mod with delay mode it speeds up my delay time a lot. I bridged the time delay time pot for longer delay times and am wondering if the the combination of this and the mod board is creating this adverse reaction. Mod only works fine and delay only works fine. I will try to trouble shoot tomorrow.
    Btw I used a ultrabright red and seem to be getting a good response aside from the above mentioned prob. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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    1. It happens something similar to me on my deep blue delay, but, i only get on the on-off-on switch two positions with delay and one with modulation and a little bit of delay. If you can solve the problem please post here the solution for it, i'll really appeciate it! Thanks!

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    2. I'm still trying but always end up back at the same point.

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    3. I built the deprofundis and tried the mod board on it. It turns out I did everything correctly. It just took a little knob twiddling. The sped up delay was the mod only setting if you turn the delays time until it is nearly as short as it can go you should start to hear the chorus vibist effect.from there use the knobs from the daughter board.
      I would however like the ability to get a wet only signal in this setting.

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    4. Did you guys sort out the issue with getting a modulated delay with the deep blue delay?? Im getting the same thing as Carlos. One short delayed/modulated setting and just two normal settings.

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  20. Would the Silonex NSL-32 work for the LED/LDR combo?

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    1. Should be fine. And I'd like you to test it because I've got some too, and then I'll know what to use :o)

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  21. sorry, beginner builder here so I'm pretty lost with regards to the modulation portion. I'm looking at the layouts and I'm wondering where the bright green 'Shape SW1, SW2 and SW3' is connected to. Is it a 2nd switch component on top of the modulation switch?

    And the modulation board is only connected to Time 1,2 and 3 from the main delay board?

    And as for general layouts, the red circle component is always a 5mm led?

    Lastly, I've built the DBD, and while it sounds great, I can't appreciate the white noise on higher settings. Since the Deprofundis has high filtering, this means it should have barely any white noise am I right?

    Thanks so much, especially Mark! this website is amazing!

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  22. oh another question..the parts count is very similar to that of the culture jam Neptune, yet this deprofundis delay is a high fidelity and high filtered delay while the Neptune isn't?

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  23. Has anyone achieved a "wet only" signal in the modulation only mode. If so how did you do it. Thanx.
    By the way I like this far better than the Deep Blue. I socketed the cap between the 2 ICs but have yet to try it with values other than stock. I will post again once I get time to. Dinosaur Jr is playing tomorrow so I need rest.

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  24. I'm troubleshooting my build. For some reason I'm getting a dry signal (no repeats) with the effect. I've checked my component values and the layout and can not find the issue.

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    1. To troubleshoot it properly you need to take voltage readings of all the pins. It sounds as though the PT2399 isn't doing it's job but IC2 is working fine which is why you're getting dry signal through. So take the voltages and post them here. The PT2399's are temperamental though and so swapping that for a new one is always a good thing to try.

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    2. Here are the voltages for the pt2399
      1) 4.9 2) 2.94 3) .6 4) .6 5) 2.97 6) 2.4 7) 4.55 8) 4.54 9) 104.6 (which can't be right) 10) 2.47 11) 2.47 12) 4.1 13) 3.16 14) 4.89 15) 4.94 16) 2.47


      Tl072 1) 4.73 2) 4.73 3) 4.73 4) .5 5) 4.73 6) 4.73 7) 4.73 8) 9.45

      78L05
      I) 9.45
      G) .5
      O) 4.94

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    3. Is the Ground value on the 78l05 unusually low, could it be a grounding problem or would that cause no signal to happen when the effect is on?

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  25. i think that all ground voltages should be zero.the g on 70l05 is unusually high, so there is a grounding problem for sure.and don't touch pin 9 on that pt2399!!!there is a problem there too...

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    1. I redid the off board ground and have switched to a different pt2399 (that I know works) but still nothing. Don't know what it could be.

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    2. Yes the ground value everywhere should be 0V. If you're measuring from a point that is supposed to be grounded and ground elsewhere then there should be no difference in potential. What point of ground did you measure the voltages using? If you used a sleeve of the input socket for instance, then it shows there is around a 0.5V difference between offboard ground, and ground on the board. That suggests a poor ground connection somewhere.

      And are you still getting over 100V on pin 9? That is a spectacularly dodgy reading.

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    3. Thanks for all the advice guys, I hope I can get this thing working without much more trouble. I was experimenting with it a little last night and discover the trimmer will continuously turn in either direction. I believe it's a 15 turn trimmer but I could turn it far more than 15 turns. This is my first build with a trimmer that is this style is this common, could this be the root of my issuer?

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    4. That just affects the delay time. The idea being that you dime the Time pot, and then keep turning the trimmer and you will see the maximum delay is increasing. Just keep doing it until you start getting distortion in the repeats so you can get the maximum delay time possible from that particular PT2399 without it distorting. The multi-turn trimmer just allows you to fine tune it more precisely than you can with a conventional trimmer.

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    5. Just turned the trimmer about 50 times in one direction. I can here it click but it never stops. Is it possible that it is turned all the way down and is restricting the time knob from allowing repeats? I might just try to take it out and run a jumper across the extra cut. Does this sound reasonable or am I barking up the wrong tree?

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  26. Hi, does this board (The first one, the most basic) have a diode on it at all? I've been looking at photos of the same circuit online and they seem to have diodes but I cant find it here at all.
    Cheers

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    1. You're probably seeing a parallel reverse polarity protection diode. I always omit them from layouts

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  27. Mine works fine. I had too switch pins 3 & 1 round on the feedback to get it to increase with clockwise movement

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  28. Hi guys,I'm daino1080 i have a problem with grindcustom deprofundis delay. I built the trimpot time version and the modulation board. When i run the effect withoit IC1 the effect and modulation work at a low volume, but when i plug IC1 there are no more sounds. What could it be? The layout has been triple checked and seems to be right.
    These are the voltages
    IC1: 1)4.45 2)4.45 3)4.45 4)0.00 5)4.45 6)4.45 7)4.45 8)8.89
    IC2: 1)4.95 2)2.47 3)0.00 4)0.00 5)3.54 6)2.47 7)0.58 8)0.62 9)2.47 10)2.47 11)2.47 12)2.47 13)2.47 14)2.47 15)2.47 16)2.47
    IC3: 1)4.57 2)4.57 3)4.57 4)0.00 5)4.55 6)4.55 7)4.55 8)8.89
    78L05: I)8.89 G)0.00 O)4.95

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  29. Built max delay with daughterboard, but low volume when I kick the effect on. Any ideas on that?

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  30. Fixed it. I missed the cut next to the 1k resistor. Duh. Sounds killer now!

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  31. Sorry for the noob question, but if you build the daughterboard you run the time pot to both boards?

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    1. sorry but i don't understand your question.from daughter board's [time1] you'll go with just a wire to main board's time1 and from [time2&3] you go to time 2&3.by this, you'll have just one time pot, the mainboard's one.

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    2. Right, so can i run two wires off the pot to time 1 on mainboard and daughter board, and two wires to time 2&3? I understood one pot, just not sure how to hook it up.

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    3. yeah man that's right. hope you'll make it.but i would suggest to check the main board alone first to see if it works ok, and then add the daughter board.

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  32. i decided to build this with tails and modulation, and somehow it fired right up first try. modulation board too, using a random ebay photoresistor and a white led. i really it, tone control in the feedback loop should be mandatory on delays. it's almost too clean, sometimes i wish there was some dirt in the feedback, too...

    i made a bunch of changes from the original design, as i wanted something for subtle and interesting ambiance more than i wanted a slapback/echo machine. it sounds good cranked, but with the mix knob around 1/4 some of the crazier sounds start to make more sense...

    changes i made from the original:

    -tails mod. moved 1u capacitor at top left of the vero (c3, between input buffer and pt2399) to a little 4x7 jfet switch daughter board i made, based on the valve wizard small time delay. used a j201. patched right in to main board in where 1u cap was. this worked even better than expected. could replace that same input cap in just about any standard pt2399 delay/reverb to add tails.

    -max time mod. used the fixed 270k resistor. sounds great, more than i need for this pedal, doesn't get crappy at full, either.

    -darker repeats. replaced c7 with a 15n cap. sounds much better to my ears. the first repeat wasn't filtered enough before. i like the notes i am playing to stand out from the delay.

    -shape knob. the enclosure i had was drilled for 7 pots, 2 stompers and 2 leds, so i did the 500k shape knob. there are some interesting organic lopsided lfo patterns in there, for sure. can get real seasick if the depth is past half. i like it.

    -taming crazy mode. instead of a on/off/on for the modulation mode switch, I used a second stomp & led, which means I can only select between the two modulated modes. no problem, there is a depth knob, so i can get non-warbly sounds, too. during testing I had the pt2399 latch up on boot once, so I added a 1k resistor between the modulation mode switch and the ground connection. this has a side effect of changing crazy mode into a nice chorusy reverbish sound that I prefer to my equinox ii. may try 1.5-2.2k in future, as it's very claustrophobic... but i really like it with modulation and the mix rolled back.

    anyway, this thing is great!

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