We are now making these in our own cases, as the Analog Man Sun Face . They are hand-built in the USA in small gold boxes, with our own USA made SUNFACE circuit board, which was made small enough to fit in almost any enclosure. As you can see in the picture down below a bit, this is a VERY high quality board of the same type used on our other pedals. It is better quality than almost any other fuzzface clone you will find, with shielding, plated through-holes, etc to meet military specs. It also has an internal CLEAN trim pot (white knob). This trim pot acts just like turning down the VOLUME knob on your guitar, to clean up the fuzz. It can be used to preset the sound as with the volume knob rolled back a bit. It also allows easier control of the volume knob on your guitar when the white CLEAN trim pot is turned a bit. It can also be used to kill Radio Frequency Interference, which may be a problem on high gain pedals in some areas, by turning it down a hair. like all our handmade pedals, the Sunface has true bypass, so when off they do not alter your sound at all. The CLEAN trimpot will also allow the sunface to work better after a vintage style wah pedal, without having to use a foxrox wah retrofit.
2012 Sun Face : in 2012 we started using a brighter, shinier gold box for the smaller Sunface pedals, as seen on the pedal on the right. I like the gold color better. The Z VEX power plate will fit these cases well too.
I'd probably suggest using a 10K for the Sundial. 5K + 2K2 doesn't even equal the usual resistor in that position in a Fuzz Face (8K2) and so I think you want to give yourself a bit extra.
Awesome! I have 4 sets of Newmarket red-dot NKT275 trannies, with proper hFe. Can't wait to make a few of these SunFaces, with voltage inverter, as gifts for friends.
ReplyDeleteI'm your friend! :o)
DeleteYou are indeed my friend, Mark! You have given me so many hours of joy, I can't even count them.
DeleteSo, is the "sundial" effectively a bias trimmer, then?
ReplyDeleteJust trying to understand the circuit....since it feeds right out of the collector.
Spot on, a 20k pot would allow you to mis-bias it more and maybe get some spluttery sounds out of it if your battery is starting to die.
DeleteCould 'I also use some other pnp ge transistors instead of NKT275. The ANALOGMAN BC108 seems to be the same layout but only with BC108 :-)
ReplyDeleteWhat are the recommended hfe values of the GEs ...?
70-90 hfe for Q1, 120-140 for Q2 I think are the generally accepted Fuzz Face ranges but some people prefer Q1 being higher than Q2, other prefer higher values for everything to give a more compressed tone. I've heard people say that the main difference is the difference in hfe between Q1 and Q2 rather than the hfe's themselves.
DeleteIt's amatter of taste anyway. I always tend to lower values on fuzz pedals. On fuzz face like circuits, I generally use Q1 70hfe and Q2 ~110.
DeleteOn tone benders 50-60- ~100, and in Fuzz Factory Q2 55 Q3 ~75. I find these valus better sounding and more controllable at the expense of lower total gain.
But just socket and try what sounds better to you
Thanks a lot for the values and explanation ...
DeleteTAGBOARDEFFECTS Rules !!! :-)
Yes it is the same layout, except the NKT275 version has a positive ground so the supply connections and 22u cap are reversed. The only usual difference between a germanium and silicon Fuzz Face is the 470R resistor for germanium is swapped for 330R in the silicon version, but it still works fine with a 470R and the Sundial allows you to bias anyway.
DeleteHi
ReplyDeletedoes anybody know this fuzz?
I do not find a lot of information about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRtf1qP7X1c
Make it sence to have a Vero for that (switching between AC128 and NKT275 :-)and the tweaks for lower end ?
I'm guessing the circuit is essentially the same but with bigger input /output caps and to get the transistor switching maybe an 3pdt switch to change which transistor the connections goes to. To be honest I'm not sure about that bit but it should work. I'm sure one of the other guys here will know better.
DeleteI´ve built it (not with this layout) a while ago with Ac128´s. One of the best sounding fuzzes i´ve ever heard. I love how the volume pot on the guitar works with it! Recommended for every fuzz lover! Peace
ReplyDeleteHmmm...just tried to build this. I'm getting plenty of fuzz, but its incredibly raspy and trebly....
ReplyDeleteWhat transistors have you used and did you measure them? Have you got any others you can try?
DeleteI used two 2h404 transistors. I THINK I have the correct pinout. I have a few others. All around 60 hfe. I know this is quite low. But i've read that low HFE transistors can also work pretty well.
DeleteI also used the negative voltage converter.
DeleteAre you getting -9V at pin 5 of the IC?
DeleteYes. I tried higher gain transistors. About 120hfe. Basically the same thing. Its fuzzy, but all trebly gritty. I will keep staring at this board for a while...
DeleteIf all else is good then consider increasing the output cap. The scheme I did this from had a 10nF, but I've seen them with a 47nF and someone else has said a 100nF. That would let more bass frequencies out of the circuit and so may tone things down a bit.
DeleteOkay, I'm getting closer. It seems the problem is the Volume pot. Turned up high, the things sound great, but when its set to unity or below, it significantly cuts the bass frequencies and sounds shrill beyond belief.
DeleteSo just to be clear. VOL Lug 2 AND the Board's Output BOTH go to the Output lug on the 3pdt. Is that correct?
No, the output of the board goes to Volume 3, Volume 2 goes to the stomp switch, Volume 1 goes to ground. I's my fault, I didn't mark the board up properly, so I'll correct that now
DeleteAh, that did it! Sounds great now. I find the CLEAN pot very useful, and will most certainly make this an external control. Which will make this a 4-knob fuzz...in a 1590A of course! Thanks again guys for a great layout.
DeleteNext up: MKII Tonebender (with voltage converter), Bearhug Compressor, ROG Tonemender, Fairfield Barbershop, and a FOXX Tone Machine! Lets see how many of these I can get done before I leave on tour! Just waiting on a huge parts order to arrive. Hopefully today!
Aaaaaaaand.....the post office lost my Tayda package. Nice...
Deletei know recommended ranges are given, but it would be nice if the folks that have the actual unit before tracing or laying out, actually supply the exact gains, leakages, and voltages so that the finished until it SPOT-ON
ReplyDeleteHi there all. Would I be wrong in thinking to convert this to a negative ground effect all that's required is to attach ground to row 1 left(where -9V is marked), and attach +9V to row 10 left (where =ve ground is marked)? Being as the input capacitor (1 uF) is non-polarised that looks like thats it. Even the 22 uF can stay where it is it looks. I found this link which seens right http://www.muzique.com/lab/fuzzface.htm .
ReplyDeleteIf anyone can give me the tick of approval, that would be great.
I'm thinking about putting both sunfaces (NKT275 & BC108) into the one box and making it switchable. Having the same power input would make it easier.
One final thing, more for the BC108, is the sundial worthy of keeping or just putting a 8.2K resistor in there sufficent?
Cheers to you all for any help and as always....LOVE THIS SITE, you guys ROCK!!
Would be safer to include a voltage inverter on the NKT Sundial board, nd forget about changing board ground but still using PNP transistors.
DeleteAs for the Sundial Knob.... well, you should anyway include a 10k trim instead of the pot or the 8.2k resistor, so.... I would keep the sundial knob.
BR
Si fuzz's really don't need a bias knob unless you like to tweak the bias to get some different sounds. But hey! sounds kind of cool having both in one box! GO for it and report back
ReplyDeleteI noticed on my friends white dot NKT sunface,
ReplyDeleteit has 1 orange metal film cap and 2 axial blue electro's
1u and a 22u.
So is that 1u cap suppose to be an electro?
Well it's an axial electro in the original, personally I'd always use a poly cap to replace an electrolytic if I have one in the value, but that's down to the builder.
DeletePerfect! If a poly works there I will use what I have on hand
DeleteThanks IvIark!
Just finished getting this going, sounds ace! I ended up using some AC127's q1: 75 hfe, q2: 114 hfe. I removed the 33k resistor and replaced it with a 50k trimmer to bias q1 collector to 1.4v. I used a 10k pot as suggested for the sundial which works great. Oh, I replaced the 2.2k resistor with a 4.7k to get the sundial in a more usable position.
ReplyDeleteFor those interested, I built this and the bc108 version on one board and they both run great. I made it do you can have on /off for both effects to true bypass on one stomp switch and a second stomp switch toggles between the two. Very usable.they clean up great as well.
I'll describe the bc108 on its post.
Over and out.
Nice one Jeff, two verifications in one! :o)
DeleteI forgot to add after that ramble that I made the 7660 voltage inverter for this pedal to run standard +ve earth supply.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHmm...I want to cut some bass, should I lower the input cap, or the output cap?
ReplyDeleteYou could take the output cap (10n) out and put it on a DPDT switch - I would probably put 4n7 and 22n on it. 4n7 for thin, vintage bass cut and 22n for full bass response. Or you could expriment with On-Off-On switch and put 4n7 in the middle, 5n6 an the upper lugs and 15n to the lower ones - Or just try out the values that suit you :)
DeleteThanks ,mirosol. I read that it originally had 100n as the output cap. He now uses 10. Still too much for me.
ReplyDeleteThis might be a dumb question, but why does the diagram show the -9V as a red wire?
ReplyDeleteIf I am building this to work only off battery, can I assume that the negative and positive text descriptions to be correct?
For two reasons - first, the ground is always 0V, not positive nor negative, but 0V. And second, most people build PNP circuits with a charge pump daughter board.
DeleteIf you are using battery only, then you would take red lead to ground and black to -9V.
+m
Thanks, Miro! I decided to make some voltage inverters, instead of just using battery in SunFaces.
DeleteOne more question, if I wanted to add an LED, where would I connect it?
Following the BC108 version I finished this one today.
ReplyDeleteI used a pair of bulky Ge russian transistors i got on ebay, which succesfully passed the DCA55 test :-)
Both with very low leakage current, hfe 76 for Q1 and 120 for Q2
Very nice sounding fuzz (I boxed it with a voltage inverter). Didn't have the opportunity to compare it with the Si version as I don't have the Si anymore :-(
http://nsa33.casimages.com/img/2013/04/16/130416032646184092.jpg